Vintage Gibson mando bass

[Jim Garber]

I would also think that a bass instrument tuned to fifths would be quite unwieldy which is bass instruments AFAIK are always tuned in fourths. The stretches would make it more difficult.

[tkdboyd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifths_tuning

[MikeEdgerton]

I don't think Phil's response was confrontational, he simply responded to a post that was a little less than helpful. I think the mandobass is called the "mando"bass because it was created to fit in with the mandolin orchestra, nothing more, nothing less.

[BradKlein]

i think the mandobass is called the "mando"bass because it was created to fit in with the mandolin orchestra, nothing more, nothing less.

*** bingo! ***

[Mike Herlihy]

I would also think that a bass instrument tuned to fifths would be quite unwieldy which is bass instruments AFAIK are always tuned in fourths. The stretches would make it more difficult.

Yep, I agree. Playing mando and tenor guitar (GDAE), I find it hard to stretch for playing tenor guitar, it would be much harder playing bass.

[Mike Herlihy]

I don't think Phil's response was confrontational, he simply responded to a post that was a little less than helpful. I think the mandobass is called the "mando"bass because it was created to fit in with the mandolin orchestra, nothing more, nothing less.

I sure Gibson's Marketing department had a meeting (that ran for hours) and figured this out:

violin = mandolin
viola = mandola
cello = mandocello
bass = mandobass

[TijnBerends]

I sure Gibson's Marketing department had a meeting (that ran for hours) and figured this out:

violin = mandolin
viola = mandola
cello = mandocello
bass = mandobass

This makes too much sense to be true :D

What about the tenor mandola, the alto mandola, the *shivers* octave mandola, and the great big pile of instruments called "cittern"?

[BBarton]

This may be of interest to you. Mandobass housed in the Gibson mandolin collection at the National Music Museum, Vermillion, SD

http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrin...obass1916.html

While at the NMM site, check out the other mandolins and the Lillibridge Gallery of guitars; some pretty cool stuff!

[Bill Snyder]

I sure Gibson's Marketing department had a meeting (that ran for hours) and figured this out:

violin = mandolin
viola = mandola
cello = mandocello
bass = mandobass

I don't know about the mandobass but I am pretty sure there were mandolas and mandocellos that predated Gibson's offerings.

[BradKlein]

Mandobass... at the National Music Museum, Vermillion, SD

http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrin...obass1916.html

This part of their description is just plain wrong, given what we know about Vega's offerings. "One of the problems with the new mandolin orchestras was that the mandolin family historically lacked a bass instrument. Gibson was the only company to address the problem directly."

But what follows is an interesting distinction that I've never seen offered elsewhere - that it was the metal wound strings that made the mandobass unique in its day.

"With four over-spun strings, the instrument could be played with a plectrum, unlike double basses of the period, whose plain gut upper strings required finger picking."

I don't know when similar strings were introduced for bass guitar family instruments. Maybe not until the electric bass guitar?

[MikeEdgerton]

In recent months I've become a student of the early years of the Fender company. The reason the Precision bass was called that was because it had frets. Looks like the Gbson mandobass preceded that by years.

[Philphool]

I don't think Phil's response was confrontational, he simply responded to a post that was a little less than helpful. I think the mandobass is called the "mando"bass because it was created to fit in with the mandolin orchestra, nothing more, nothing less.

Despite Phil's somewhat confrontational tone, he does have a point: the "mando bass" shares a few characteristics of a mandolin,......

Thank you Mike. And thank you Allen. Both comments are helpful and informative. (Better?)

[Mandobart]

Ok, it's not technicaly a "mando" bass, but it is made by Rigel, incase you missed it in this thread:

[Bernie Daniel]

That was a cool sound -- but I'd think it would beat the pulp out of your thumb after a while?

[Jim Garber]

Wyatt Willkie posted this on another thread.

Troise & His Mandoliers (UK 1932)

Check out the mandobass around 00:32

[Bill Snyder]

Here is the mandobass from that clip.

[grandcanyonminstrel]

Thanks to everyone who offered help and information both here and in private. This project was started by the late Bob Lundberg and I've been asked to help finish it. I've been able to line up a very nice Loar era Gibson mandobass and a couple of others nearby that will finish up the information I'm after. If everything goes on schedule (Does it ever happen that way?), you should see a couple of interesting articles and a full blueprint available by the end of the year.

As for the thread derail attempts...well...it is public on the world wide waste of time.....

Thanks for the Link to Pete's / Rigel bass- that thing is cool!!!

I know of one Vega mandobass in the Portland, Oregon area. A two point with a flat / induced semi-arch back with a sort of flat top with a breakover behind the bridge like an old bowlback mandolin. Due to the much larger volume of the body, it has a deeper sound than the Gibsons I've played.

Tuning in fifths is not uncommon in the double bass world; while it represents some new approaches to fretboard navigation and positions, it also has a lot of strong advocates of this style. About 90% of the time, I play my bass in DADG, so I understand some of the difficulties and the benefits of fifths tuning for a bass; maybee you could call me a 4.5 tuner.

Being one of the handful of both mandolin player / builder and double bass builder / player, my personal take on the lack of larger interest with these instruments is two obvious reasons:

1) The body shape and bridge geometry make it very difficult to use a bow; a tremendous joy to a double bass player and an incredible amount of power and technique.

2) Frets. As nice as they are on a mandolin, not having the infinite range of expression and the ability to slurrrrrr and mmmmwwwwaaaaahhhhh your notes is a complete deal breaker to me as a double bass player.

As a builder, it uses a LOT of materials- I could make ten mandolins out of the materials for one mando bass; a nice mandobass will sell for about the same or less as one nice mandolin. Economics has a lot to do with it- nobody has ever asked me to build one. My guess is that if I built a mando bass, it would be an interesting novelty item; when I build another traditional double bass (#2 is in progress now), myself or somebody else will be out giging with it three nights a week....

You've gotta be pretty comfortable in the spray booth to tackle a 'burst this big:

j.
www.condino.com
www.kaybassrepair.com

[Beanzy]

Here is Hillary James who actually plays one for a living with Simon Mayor;
Apparently she doesn't favor Gibsons....

Our mandolin orchestra got to play with them on Saturday and Hilary was playing that beside me.
It has a huge presence and gives a way bigger sound than a bass viol or any similar instrument I've heard.
It really does have a distinctive sound, not as much sustain as a double bass, but more 'thump' to it.

[Toddy]

J,
If you happen to get the blueprints and decide to make an exact 1920s Gibson J Mandobass replica, I would honestly be the first in line to buy one!! Maybe with a couple modern improvements (i.e. better tuners, bridge, etc...) that do not affect the sound or tone, you could call it the "JM" Mandobass. ("M" stands for modified or modern). I have been a bassist for over 30 years and have extensively studied different stringed bass instruments. Absolutely love the sound of a Gibson J. Yes, they are quiet and thumpy, but once you hear the actual sound live it is sweet and distinctive. Too bad no one has really posted any YouTube clips for one that show its true character. If I bought an actual vintage Gibson J, I would be afraid to play it much because it might "break".

To place my theory on why it is called a "mando"bass, I totally agree with Mike H. Just like a BanjoBass or BassBanjo or Bassjo. They had to call it something. I tune my basses in fourths. My brain does not work well in fifths.
Definitely keep us posted on your progress!
Toddy

[Jim Garber]

When I first joined the New York Mandolin Orchestra the sole bass player played a contrabass balalaika. He used a square shoe leather as a pick and he got amazing sound out of it. He was a bear of a man tho and I think he used true elbow grease. I asked him one time why he did not play a mandobass and he said that he did for a while but that the balalaika bass was much louder and projected much better. He retired top Florida and AFAIK no since them was able or willing to play that bass balalaika for any amount of time.

[grandcanyonminstrel]

In no way do I want to slight the design of these interesting old instruments; they have their place and are an interesting piece of history....but...I've played five gigs in the last eight days on a standard 3/4 double bass where the rest of the band(s) plugged in and I kept it simple and just used a lot more right hand technique unamplified....not once did I ever think to myself, "I wish this thing was a lot quieter, it had frets, and I couldn't use my bow...."

j.

[Jim Garber]

I agree with James. Mandobasses are an interesting novelty instrument but can't truly hold up to a well-played upright. They were intended, of course, as a way for amateurs to play orchestral music, much in the same way as the other mandolin family ones corresponded to the regular orchestral instruments.

[Marcus CA]

If you look at the photo that Bill included in Post #41, you can see that the foot comes out of the body on an angle, which let you play it in somewhat mandolin position. This photo shows the same idea:



I played one at Gryphon last year, and it was a booming bear! The huge problem, though, is where to put your legs. You can either sit sidesaddle like the gentleman in this photo, or wish you were a gymnast when you try to spread your legs. My son, who plays bass, had a much easier time playing it than I did.

[Jim Garber]

If you look at the photo that Bill included in Post #41, you can see that the foot comes out of the body on an angle, which let you play it in somewhat mandolin position.

Actually Gibson gave you two options. You could take the extension and insert it in the alternate hole near the tailpiece to play it like an upright. This is from the 1917 Catalog J. You can see the alternate side hole in this photo.

[BradKlein]

The armrests must be a fairly rare item by this time. The majority of Gibson mandobasses I've seen have not had theirs. And you can imagine that once separated from the instrument, it would take quite a detective to figure out what the heck that thing was meant for!