Practice/Multi-Instrumentalist?

**Phil1580** · Jul-05-2012, 3:13am

I have been struggling lately with how to practice, especially with multiple instrument interests. I think I might be stretching myself too thin, but I truly want to play all of my instruments at least to a intermediate competency level.

My primary instrument is guitar, I play pretty well. Beyond guitar we have the mandolin, octave mandolin, piano, pennywhistle, and harmonica. I don't count my bass guitar. :P I also used to own a set of Uilleann pipes, and they are on my bucket list of instruments to learn to play before I die.

I am a married father of 5 boys no older than 7, and I work full-time.

Knowing that everyone is different, what is generally a worthwhile amount of practice per instrument, and am I being overly ambitious with 6-7 instruments? Looking for advice I guess on practicing regiment/how much time for how many.

**Grommet** · Jul-05-2012, 4:46am

Phil,
I like to keep some pennywhistles in the car to entertain my wife while she is driving. I don't have very serious Celtic ornamentaion chops on whistle. I guess the whole car thing won't work for piano! I get a fair amount of guitar time at the jam sessions I frequent. Sure I would love to learn more on the guitar, on the other hand I already get a great deal of satifaction from playing guitar. Meanwhile, for the last three years actual daily practice has been limited to mandolin. I want to feel that same satisfaction all over again on mandolin. Since I mainly played alot of fingerstyle and some BG style rhythm on guitar, whistle and harmonica served more to encourage me to explore single note melody. Mandolin has fit well with that direction. Now I want to know the mandolin fengerboard on a much deeper level (FFcP method currently). The intrest in melody has caused me to look at jazz and swing sounds (and me a Dylan/Scruggs fan) and to want to explore more chord theory. For me it has taken a certain focus, but we each have to set our own goals. Enjoy the process!

**250sc** · Jul-05-2012, 7:06am

When I played multi-instruments I'd make better progress when I concentrated on one at a time. For instance I'd only practice mando for a couple of months (or until I hit a learning platue) than concentrate on something else. When I spent a couple hours on mando then a couple on guitar I found it hard to seperate them. I think I needed the new skills I was practiceing to really lock in my mind/hands.

**UsuallyPickin** · Jul-05-2012, 8:23am

Well .. Guitar Mandolin Fiddle Banjo here ... guitar and mandolin being upside down from each other took awhile to overcome. I mean set one down and pick up the other one and my brain would say Nooooo. I did eventually get used to it. Fiddles having no frets was less of an issue than playing with a bow. I'm still working on that one.Banjo having the highest pitch string under my thumb stilll bothers me. Anyway I told you that to say this. A better understanding of music and how chords and melodies are put together has been really helpful to me in moving between instruments. I can't say about wind instruments as I don't play any. But it is all addative. You play you grow. Play every day. How ever much you are able. Teaching will also hone your musical chops. R/

**JeffD** · Jul-05-2012, 8:36am

First off - I think practicing anything musical helps with the playing of anything else. Even learning to sing can reap huge rewards in mandolin playing. So its not like any aspect of music is abandoned when one aspect is emphasized.

Secondly, I think there is a difference between beginner practice and general practice. When I started learning fiddle, I had to go on a mandolin diet for a while. Now that I am beyond the offensive stage of fiddle playing, everything helps everything.

Third point - different instruments require different amounts of attention at different times - they are not all equal. The fiddle is a real jealous instrument, (thou shalt not have any instruments before me), which is a real problem because the mandolin has first call on my heart. But this is inter-instrumental bickering. The point is that the fiddle requres more of my time to become mediocre at it, than to excell at anything else.

**mando.player** · Jul-05-2012, 9:43am

I usually approach playing guitar and mandolin practicing from a tune aspect. I usually pick a couple of tunes and work on the melody and rhythm. Once I have that down, I'll take what ever concepts I'm currently interested in and apply those to the tune. Those concepts might be melody embellishment (simple improv), chord substitutions or varying my rhythm patterns.

For me the context of the tune acts as a fence. It keeps me from wandering and losing focus.

**mandocrucian** · Jul-05-2012, 12:12pm

All your fretted string instruments are essentially just variations on each other. Different tuning, or same tuning/different fingering. But mechanically, your hands are doing pretty much the same things on any of them. Duplicate your repertoire on one particular instrument on the others. Learn your guitar stuff on mando and on OM. Learn your mando stuff (if different) on guitar, and then on OM. etc. As far a new stuff - tunes, technical exercises - put those on all three. Keep replicating the same sound patterns on all of them until your subsconscious brain links them up as variations of each other, and you won't have to think hard about different fingerings or fretboard layouts. Actually I would include bass guitar in the process as well. All the rock, soul, funk bass lines should go onto gtr, mando, OM (and every other instrument). The mando tunes likewise go over to bass. If you are playing bass with RH fingers, play gtr etc RH bass style.

That's the basic idea, but staying within a family type of instruments. I'd extend the concept to learning "mando" tunes on harmonica and whistle (and piano), and reverse the process with all your breath driven tunes put onto strings. Guitar rhythms > piano. Piano accompaniment grooves/vamps/riffs > guitar, OM, mando.

It's the "one big instrument" concept/philosophy referred to by guys like David Lindley and Ry Cooder. Instruments are all just variations of each other because the brain is the real instrument.

Niles H

**farmerjones** · Jul-05-2012, 1:13pm

i recently added piano to fiddle, banjar, mandolin, & guitar. And i have to say, it's all about what you expect from yourself. Or as Niles puts it, "the master instrument." My chops are probably best on fiddle. I don't seek out gigs, but just jam with my pals. So i don't think, i expect a lot out of myself. I do want to be able to think of a tune/song, settle on a key, start it up, sing and play it through, sort of as a nice neat package. That's sort of the qualifications in our circle. It's not nose-bleed high performance technique, but definately a maintenence level, as apposed to a learning level. I just don't think too much about it. Just like the level at which i wish to play piano, doesn't really even qualify to a real pianist, and i don't care. I just think of a song, grab a chord pattern and flog away.

The fiddle is indeed a funny, jealous thing as expressed above. It took me eight or nine years to trust myself, that not practicing for a weekend, it wouldn't all be gone. Sounds silly but true.

**catmandu2** · Jul-05-2012, 1:49pm

I love playing isntruments--all kinds, their voices all different. Lke Niles said--the brian functions on any of them. If your brain likes diversity and enjoys that kind of variety of sounds, go for it. Hearing from a palatte, hearing solo voices, harmony, melody--the brain likes ita ll

People in woodwinds talk a lot about doubling--as it's customary to double or more on horns--to fill harmony parts whether it be classical or jazz...some folks like it all and can't decide--I go from week to week, or usually month or two--the music dictates my direction at any given time

I love the feeling of playing as much as anything in music--addicted to the tactile sensation of holding and playing beautiful instruments, the vibrations of all, synching it up with the sounds...I can't decide betrween horns, strings, drums, reeds, bass, soprano, it's all too much

But do it.

So the thinkg Niles says--if it's in the same family--be it horns, strings, etc--the usually easier. But everybody brain wired different course.. It feels good to go from family to family, but quicker going from string to string or horn or whatever. It always helps to hear the whole peanut in music and listening and studying all the parts is too much fun

**1-2-many** · Jul-05-2012, 2:31pm

It's nice to hear that I'm not alone. I have no idea how you can even attempt it w/ young kids in the mix. I have no children but currently play Guitar, Bass, Mando, Zouk, Irish Tenor Banjo and Uilleann Pipes (for the last 3 months). Playing out 3-6 X a month w/ an Irish folk group and nearly every Sunday at church, besides a full time job & wife. Divide and conquer is my best advice. Being in a band will also force you to focus. Kind of crazy, but it's fun isn't it? If music is a language, then different instruments afford you another dialect.

**catmandu2** · Jul-05-2012, 2:40pm

1-2, ha it mostly feels like craziness and a burden. Like you say--too little time. But what are we to do? I can't decide between genres...the feeling takes over. If I'm hearing jazz, but then Irish/breton, cajun, scvandi, OT, modern, trad, ragtime, no time...it never ends. god...it's like, having to pick a time to live in--I want to live in the them all

I think the worst thing that ever happened to me is when I stopped being a total jazz snob...it was so much simpler then

**catmandu2** · Jul-05-2012, 3:03pm

Music is drama--how much music do you need to "act out" your life? Or, how much do you need music to act out? Or, how much do you need to act out in music. Or how much do you need to act...music is acting out

**Mike Romkey** · Jul-05-2012, 3:11pm

I'll give a slightly different perspective. I started in the same place: pretty good guitar player, bored with my playing and newly interested in fiddle music. Added (not all at the same time) piano (wanted to learn about Music and thought that was the best vehicle), mandolin, violin. And yes, penny whistle.

Fast-forward a few years. I was going back and forth between mandolin and fiddle, playing out in a couple of bands, one Irish, one blue grass. My ability was broad but shallow. I decided if I wanted to be more than average playing anything, I'd be more likely to make progress if I focused my efforts. I decided to concentrate on mandolin. Mandolin and violin ought to be a good fit, but the mechanics of playing them is totally different, and you need a totally different approach to playing the same tunes, in my opinion. It's tough to serve to masters. At least it is for me.

It's difficult to be objective about how much progress you make, but I would say I am probably twice as solid as a mandolin player today I was a year ago, when I decided to put most of my effort into mandolin. I'm not sure the typical listener would notice, but I do, and my bandmates do.

That said, dedicated time each day to:

* Scales and arpeggios with a metronome (working out of Flesch)
* Bach (I have yet to get one down enough to play it in public, but I'm close)_
* Things I know (lots of Monroe, American and Irish fiddle music)
* New tunes and songs (mostly blue grass and OT these days)

**catmandu2** · Jul-05-2012, 3:23pm

Indeed Mike. If we could all play like Cecil Taylor, there would be no need for mandolins or fiddles ... (then we would want to be Anthony Braxton..)

No but yeah it's rare for someone to attain artistic achievement on so many. I always wanted to be an artist but never reached beyond craft. It's about choice--what do you want to express? I want to improvise and express it all. But I get called to sing/play standards, not get crazy. An artist has to say, "no"... but someday, I hope to get called to get crazy. Some of my friends think I'm crazy. Lots of people think you're crazy when you drag so many instruments around. I probably am crazy. I guess I use music to assuage my craziness

but there are so many functions of music

But the question is about shedding, and you can't shed everything. So it's gotta be jazz

No but really and I'll shut up. It's the music in your head. I wanted to play like everybody. But there's only one Coltrane, or sabicas, or Dolphy...everybody wants to play like Paco. I can't even play the clarinet like I want, and it's taken me a lifetime to find an instrument I can live with...so it happens to be an instrument I started when I was 9 years old (and this will only last until my teeth fall out...)

in sum: you have to be able to hit the wailing tonic -- at the beginning of Zydeco Joe's break; and you have to be able to play delicately and airily like Hermeto Paschoal, Shivkumar Sharma, Liam O'Flynn, Kevin Burke, or any number of examples. And we have to be able to dance. How are we going to do that?

**Philphool** · Jul-05-2012, 5:14pm

Just a different perspective: you have "5 boys no older than 7".

Practice enough, but not TOO much!

Take it from one who has made mistakes.

**jbrwky** · Jul-06-2012, 7:53am

" I like my cigar too, but I take it out once in awhile...." Groucho Marx

**Andy Alexander** · Jul-06-2012, 8:51am

I play banjo and some guitar in the band. I find it difficult getting my hands reoriented when going from guitar back to banjo. I am always amazed to watch Little Roy Lewis play as many as four different instruments during a fast tune.

**JeffD** · Jul-06-2012, 11:00am

Originally Posted by Mike Romkey

Mandolin and violin ought to be a good fit, but the mechanics of playing them is totally different, and you need a totally different approach to playing the same tunes, in my opinion. It's tough to serve two masters. At least it is for me.

Its tough to serve two masters when one of them is a fiddle, thats for sure.

What I have done, without really thinking this through, is, after achieving some basic ability to play the dern things, is to work the tunes that sound best on the instrument. There are tunes that just sound better on fiddle. They sound ok on mandolin but are really made for the fiddle. I work on those tunes on the fiddle. Other tunes really do sound better on the mandolin, so...

So I am not sure which instruments get how much attention. They all get the attention they need. (Well the fiddle needs more attention than I have, but it gets enough.)

**catmandu2** · Jul-06-2012, 11:07am

Originally Posted by JeffD

So I am not sure which instruments get how much attention. They all get the attention they need.

That's my general approach; the music dictates:

fiddle for fiddle tunes
harp & hammered dulcimer for harp tunes
tenor banjo for ragtime and standards
guitar for flamenco, etc

but there's much crossover--I like accordian for fiddle tunes, Irish and cajun, etc.

I took this approach because I got bored with clawhammer banjo, I get bored with harp tunes, bluegrass, etc. I get tired blowing, and I grab the strings, etc.

Artistry suffers, for sure, but my musical tastes are too varied. It's the Faustian bargain

**catmandu2** · Jul-06-2012, 3:29pm

But lord, more in sympathy with op Phil, and a parent of twin 7-year olds myself, it's a wonder you have any time/energy to manage practice at all. Sometimes, playing along with Disney or sponge bob is all I can manage--fortunately, cinematic music is generally quite good

**JonZ** · Jul-06-2012, 11:40pm

That Hawaiian guitar player on Spongebob really cooks! I always wondered if it was Bob Brozman.

There was a video of Mike Marshall, put out by a string company, with him talking about learning violin, guitar, and mandolin.

I think I would choose a favorite, and get rid of the rest. (Talkin' bout the instruments, not the kids

)

Or assign an instrument to each kid, and you've got yourself a band.

My kids liked to run circles around the house while I played John Hardy on the banjo at top speed. They called it "The Run Around Song". It was a good way to wear them out.

Not having a beer in the evening gave me a little more energy to practice after they finally konked out. No cable gave me some extra hours. Now one plays fiddle and one plays bass, and I've got a home-grown jam session. Enjoy.

**catmandu2** · Jul-10-2012, 4:00pm

Jon, re steel/slide gtr --we come to things differently, times eh? I'm sitting here looking at my Sierra S10 pedal steel in its plush red box--a beast, and I think I'll get it out for my boy to play on, without the pedals--he can't reach them for a year or three...when I was my boy's age, I played the flamboyant intro to the Looney Tunes cartoons on a "hawiian" steel in a red plush case I found in my dad's closet...it was my introduction to guitar. I grew up on cartoons and steel guitars (and saxophones)...not a bad deal

**Starrshine** · Jul-11-2012, 11:55am

Interesting thread, as I seem to have a lot of instruments around too. But, then, I am a Gemini and I am supposed to flitter around

. I can't help myself when it comes to finding new instruments. Lately, have been on a crash course of flute since I found one at Goodwill for $35. I am mainly a guitar player, but I hear other instruments in my compositions! I find myself recording some sort of progression or piece on my H2 and, then, playing over it with whatever instrument I think will sound good with it. Frankly, doesn't always work out, but it is great practice and a good learning tool! Now somebody has given me a very nice violin, so here I go again!
Bob

**catmandu2** · Jul-11-2012, 12:06pm

Originally Posted by Starrshine

But, then, I am a Gemini...

me too

I'm hopelessly addicted. It started 30 years ago with a Teac 3340, but never got it together to use it (was absorbed with Bach at the time). I've been wanting a simple multitracker lately, but...too dam* busy playing instruments. But, last night I played flute along to a crude tape recording of my hammered dulcimer...never done it, but I play so many same tunes on many instruments it's easy to mix them. Felt like I could get deep into it--in this music

Maybe I'll try to just stick with Itm/Breton/Cajun, and just play all those instruments in that music like everyone else...blow my horns when I must. Folks on the woodwind forums were very supportive to this strategy--mentioning that my harp/hammered dulcimer and flute will "go nice together." I always think some "formula" to help me stick with something more than others is what I need. I've looked to the music to help me with this, but there;s just too much good music. At least I've resisited studying traditional Indian music!--although it took years to talk myself out of it

**mingusb1** · Jul-11-2012, 3:11pm

I think Niles pretty much nailed it, but I'd also say that 6 or 7 instruments is too much to learn at the same time. Now 6 instruments over a lifetime is maybe another story. I currently swap around between three. And playing one has definitely helped me learn/play the others. One thing that is great is to wrestle a doghouse bass for a set and then move to guitar or mandolin. Sometimes makes them feel like kid's stuff!

Z