Playing fiddle tunes on the mandola - Should I capo?

**RBMB** · Jun-30-2012, 5:35pm

I'm trying to learn how to play mandola and have been tuned C-G-D-A. I tried playing a few fiddle tunes I know how to play in C and D on guitar, and D on mandolin -- St Anne's Real and Whiskey. I found than on the mandola playing in C resulted in much easier fingerings and just sounded better. Realizing that I need to play these songs in D in a jam, I put a capo and played them. I found it was much easier to play the mandola this way. I've never used a capo on my mandolin, but have to say I find the mandola feels like it was designed for playing in C (over D). I'm curious what folks recommend.

**Steve L** · Jun-30-2012, 6:18pm

I recommend you not be curious what folks recommend. For some reason, capo use stirs up a hornets nest. Put the capo on, enjoy your tunes, and brush up on vitriolic ways of telling people to mind their own business.

**foldedpath** · Jun-30-2012, 6:48pm

If you're capo'd at the second fret, then you've discovered the DAEB trick for playing fiddle tunes on a mandola. If you're not on the second fret, then try it.

This gives you the same pitch on the lower three strings (DAE) that you have on the upper three strings of a mandolin (or fiddle), but an octave lower. Since probably 90% of common fiddle tunes are played on just the D, A, and E strings, that makes it super easy to play fiddle tunes on a mandola along with other people. Just shift your normal mandolin fingering down onto the lower strings. And you'll have that handy B note on the high string, which avoids a pinky stretch on the longer scale length.

The only place you'll get into trouble is with some of the modern Contra Dance repertoire, and some of the weirder Irish tunes that do go down on the G string on mandolin (which you won't have, shifted this way on a mandola). If that happens, just do what Irish flute players do, and "fold" the note up an octave. Or just skip it, if it's not essential to the tune.

This DAEB setup is so useful that some of us just tune the mandola that way and dispense with the capo. That's how I have my Breedlove/Zenkl 4-string mandola tuned right now.

Or, you can just capo 2 and still have the CGDA tuning if you want it. Unlike mandolin, I think this is much less of a contentious issue with a capo. As the scales get longer, capo use makes more sense for many situations.

**Bernie Daniel** · Jul-01-2012, 11:46am

Originally Posted by foldedpath

If you're capo'd at the second fret, then you've discovered the DAEB trick for playing fiddle tunes on a mandola. If you're not on the second fret, then try it.

This gives you the same pitch on the lower three strings (DAE) that you have on the upper three strings of a mandolin (or fiddle), but an octave lower. Since probably 90% of common fiddle tunes are played on just the D, A, and E strings, that makes it super easy to play fiddle tunes on a mandola along with other people. Just shift your normal mandolin fingering down onto the lower strings. And you'll have that handy B note on the high string, which avoids a pinky stretch on the longer scale length.

The only place you'll get into trouble is with some of the modern Contra Dance repertoire, and some of the weirder Irish tunes that do go down on the G string on mandolin (which you won't have, shifted this way on a mandola). If that happens, just do what Irish flute players do, and "fold" the note up an octave. Or just skip it, if it's not essential to the tune.

This DAEB setup is so useful that some of us just tune the mandola that way and dispense with the capo. That's how I have my Breedlove/Zenkl 4-string mandola tuned right now.

Or, you can just capo 2 and still have the CGDA tuning if you want it. Unlike mandolin, I think this is much less of a contentious issue with a capo. As the scales get longer, capo use makes more sense for many situations.

Brilliant! I would not have thought of that I know. I've been just figuring out the new fingerings on the mandola -- lots of use of the 6th fret! But that idea sure is tempting. I'm going to keep a capo in the mandola case for sure. Thanks for the tip.

**RBMB** · Jul-01-2012, 4:04pm

foldedpath, Thank you for the helpful comments! M

**Tavy** · Jul-02-2012, 3:14am

Originally Posted by Steve L

I recommend you not be curious what folks recommend. For some reason, capo use stirs up a hornets nest. Put the capo on, enjoy your tunes, and brush up on vitriolic ways of telling people to mind their own business.

To be fair, I don't think the capo police are as bothered about longer scale instruments as they are about mandolins. I mean just try playing a 'zouk without one.... just saying...

**Mandobart** · Jul-02-2012, 10:01am

Then there are some key of C fiddle tunes that really shine on a standard tuned mandola, viola or mandocello; such as "Billy in the Lowground", "Grey Eagle", "Lost Indian" and more. I pull a few of these out from time to time and its the banjo and dobro player's turn to capo.

**John Kelly** · Jul-02-2012, 4:01pm

If you find that the capo has enabled you to play the tunes more fluently and easily then go for it; it is your choice on your instrument. Were it not for all the innovations which folk have introduced into our music we'd never have the range of material and performances we have today. Remember that it was only about 40 years ago that the bouzouki was brought into Irish music, and think of the use of tenor guitars and tenor banjos which have been adapted by many of us to "other" tunings for our Irish and Scottish repertoires.

**Goodin** · Jul-06-2012, 7:57am

Also consider tuning the A string down to G then experimenting with a capo. This will make for less of a reach up the fretboard on the G string and its a great tuning for backing. This is like the most common bouzouki tuning - GDAD, but in G - CGDG. Also, if you have a long neck mandola you can capo up to the 7th fret and get mandolin tuning GDAE.

**JeffD** · Jul-06-2012, 8:25am

Originally Posted by foldedpath

If you're capo'd at the second fret, then you've discovered the DAEB trick for playing fiddle tunes on a mandola. If you're not on the second fret, then try it.

This gives you the same pitch on the lower three strings (DAE) that you have on the upper three strings of a mandolin (or fiddle), but an octave lower..

I do this frequently. Its a quick and dirty octave when you want it. Doing chord back up can take a little mental gymnastics, because in addition to being a fourth down (mandola plus capo) you are a fifth down (one string over). (A fourth and a fifth is an octave). But once you get centered it works just fine.

Actually that is one of the things I like about the mandola - the capo doesn't rob it of too much range and there are a lot of interesting options.

**RBMB** · Jul-07-2012, 1:45pm

Thanks for all the great comments! I bought a Shubb Banjo capo and it works great!

**JeffD** · Jul-07-2012, 2:10pm

Just make sure you use it proudly, assertively, with impunity. Cut any naysayers off at the knees. If you are on stage put the capo on with a dramatic flair, and adjust it between songs.

**Bernie Daniel** · Jul-07-2012, 4:09pm

Originally Posted by JeffD

Just make sure you use it proudly, assertively, with impunity. Cut any naysayers off at the knees. If you are on stage put the capo on with a dramatic flair, and adjust it between songs.

Yes the "capo police" are really a toothless bunch --- stand up to them.

I went to a Bluegrass festival in PA last year and was surprised to see the mando player used a capo -- I think on every song that was not in A or D. I think that is right. Anyway he sounded great of course he had his own unique style on the breaks --mostly cross-picking and so he had less range style-wise than many players have. There was a certain pattern to all his breaks.

I talked to him about it at their table he said he does get some flack but most can't cross pick like he can so its even.

**multidon** · Jul-08-2012, 2:52pm

I tune my mandola DAEB and find it very useful in the key of D, which I seem to in constantly while playing in a group with dulcimers. However, i recommend against tuning up a step with your regular mandola strings. This may increase the tension beyond what your mandola was designed for. You'll break strings or worse. I put together a custom set using single strings 10-20W-32W-42W. This set duplicates the recommended tensions pretty closely for my 15 1/2 in Mid Mo mandola. Capoing on the second fret works too if you want to keep the C tuning, but I came to the conclusion that C tuning is pretty useless to me for what I mostly play (Celtic and Old Time). So I don't miss it. If you want to use the capo for something, you could do what I do, tune in DAEB, put the capo on the 4th fret, then you have a standard GDAE mandolin! Two instruments in one! Of course, when I do that, because my mandola scale is so short, it's about a 12 1/2 inch scale mandolin! Gotta be careful with those fingers! But what fun!

**ptritz** · Jul-08-2012, 5:25pm

If you want to use the capo for something, you could do what I do, tune in DAEB, put the capo on the 4th fret, then you have a standard GDAE mandolin! Two instruments in one! Of course, when I do that, because my mandola scale is so short, it's about a 12 1/2 inch scale mandolin! Gotta be careful with those fingers! But what fun![/QUOTE]

If you're tuned to DAEB, the capo has to be at the fifth fret, not the fourth, to get GDAE.

**multidon** · Jul-08-2012, 8:42pm

Oops. My bad. You are correct ptritz. It is the 5th fret. My bad.

**Chris Hasty** · Jul-27-2012, 9:57pm

I've been playing my 18.5 inch Commodium mandola tuned DGDA. Helps with the ITM fiddle tunes as long as I don't get my fingerings mixed up with mandolin tunings.

I have toyed with the idea of a capo many times, but I wanted to really try and become proficient on the mandola as it is. However I don't see why someone should look down on those that would.

**Bernie Daniel** · Jul-28-2012, 7:54am

Originally Posted by Hastyman

I've been playing my 18.5 inch Commodium mandola tuned DGDA. Helps with the ITM fiddle tunes as long as I don't get my fingerings mixed up with mandolin tunings.

I have toyed with the idea of a capo many times, but I wanted to really try and become proficient on the mandola as it is. However I don't see why someone should look down on those that would.

That is a long scale mandola for sure. A pic would be great.

But really if you are tuning DGDA you are not in standard mandola tuning anyway so you are not really developing fingering patterns that are useful for a "standard" tuned mandola? So would you be just as well off with a capo to give DAEB? Just interest in leaning what you strategy is with this approach.

**Chris Hasty** · Jul-28-2012, 8:47pm

Bernie, it's funny that I had that exact same thought about my tuning as I posted it, but it's more standard than it appears so I decided to roll with it.

I had talked to Marla Fibish at one point about mandola tuning and it was her recommendation to tune DGDA. I tried it for a while and found it really beneficial for playing ITM, as I seldom used the low C and when I did it was usually part of a run that I had to jump up an octave for anyways so it seemed more logical to jump off from the D as opposed to a C from a tuning/tune perspective.

It's not so much a DAEB tuning as it is the CGDA tuning but utilizing the lowest string as an open D which allows for drones on either D or G while playing melody lines.

I have some pics that I will try to post in a few minutes.

**Bernie Daniel** · Jul-29-2012, 1:04am

Originally Posted by Hastyman

Bernie, it's funny that I had that exact same thought about my tuning as I posted it, but it's more standard than it appears so I decided to roll with it.

I had talked to Marla Fibish at one point about mandola tuning and it was her recommendation to tune DGDA. I tried it for a while and found it really beneficial for playing ITM, as I seldom used the low C and when I did it was usually part of a run that I had to jump up an octave for anyways so it seemed more logical to jump off from the D as opposed to a C from a tuning/tune perspective.

It's not so much a DAEB tuning as it is the CGDA tuning but utilizing the lowest string as an open D which allows for drones on either D or G while playing melody lines.

I have some pics that I will try to post in a few minutes.

Hmmm. Pretty interesting -- I agree that the C-course is not really too helpful for D-tunes -- if anything you are going to the F# on the 6th fret a lot in some tunes. DGDA might be worth a good try at the minimum.