1902 Gibson Mandolin Model A , 6th one built by Gibson

[Raggle Taggle]

Wouldn't Gibson be interested in this mandolin? Perhaps they would accept a "donation" of this instrument (as is) for their archives and gift you an honorarium in return.

[Bmaverick]

Goodin, The main body in between the top and bottom, extends about 1.5" up the neck. The neck is glued to the top of that, and against the flat on the upper piece, plus the fretboard is also glued to the top of the top body piece. No visable dove tail. Main center body is carved out of a single piece of wood. Not sure what kind. The neck looks like walnut.

[Bmaverick]

Raggle Taggle, I had thought about that but closer to home in the Kalamazoo Museum, which has a Gibson display. But I am told they already have a pre-factory model like this one, from before the factory started in 1902. I was thinking more of an on loan basis.

[Goodin]

Goodin, The main body in between the top and bottom, extends about 1.5" up the neck. The neck is glued to the top of that, and against the flat on the upper piece, plus the fretboard is also glued to the top of the top body piece. No visable dove tail. Main center body is carved out of a single piece of wood. Not sure what kind. The neck looks like walnut.

Thanks. Would you care to take a picture of this area and post, if you have time?

[JeffD]

And yes, it was meant to be played sitting down. Most Gibsons do have endpins, but those weren't meant to be strap buttons. Playing mandolin with a strap didn't really become popular until the 1940s.

OK. I give up. What were they for, before the 1940s? On a fiddle they hold the tension of the strings by holding the tailpiece. This function on the mandolin is done by the attachement of tailpiece itself, often with screws. So was this not always the case? Was the original purpose of the mandolin end pin similar to the fiddle's?

[JeffD]

So really, there's nothing even saying yours wasn't done first, !

This is an amazing thought actually. Is there any information that can be acquired, either from the instrument itself or from external records, that could determine the actual order? Probably not but it is a fascinating thought.

I would love to see a comprehensive article (or column) on this wonderful instrument and its place in Gibson and indeed all of mandolin history.

[Jim Garber]

I guess one interesting point was when did Orville stop making instruments and the Gibson consortium start? Also, did OG serve as a consultant in the interim process. It seems that this mandolin has definite characteristics of the earlier Orville-built ones but seems to be changing slightly toward the more modern methods of even a few years later.

[woodwizard]

That's just what I was thinking Jim. Also I thought on OG's mandolins the neck and back were carved out of one piece of wood. Am I wrong on that asumption? This is really a great find for sure.

[brunello97]

I am so loving this thread. This is one of the best ones that has rolled through here in a long time.

Mick

[mrmando]

Was the original purpose of the mandolin end pin similar to the fiddle's?

AFAIK, Gibson mandolins had endpins because violins had them.

As we can see from the changes in design during the first four years of the Gibson Company, the folks who bought Orville out soon discovered that a lot of his ideas weren't suitable for mass production. Many of the changes they made were borrowed from violin design: tailblocks, neck joints, bent rather than carved sides, kerfing, etc. I'm not prepared to say endpins were added for no other reason than to look purty ... but since they're held in place mostly by friction, they're clearly not intended to be strap buttons. Before Bill Monroe made straps popular, mandolinist either played sitting down or just cradled the instrument in their arms when they stood up, the way Dave Apollon did and Carlo Aonzo still does.

As for the idea of donating this instrument to Gibson, I'm not sure Gibson has any "archives" per se, or any appropriate place to display such a thing.

[Bmaverick]

Ok, gentlemen, here is the pics to settle your questions about neck to body construction. Also, I removed the metal string holder at the tail, no evidence of anything else under there like a pin. Talked to Bill Halsey and we had a great conversation about his roll trying to get Gibson to start producing mandolins and banjo's again in the 70's, but they kept the focus on the guitar scene. Hope to meet him the end of the month. He really like the repair department at Elderly of Lansing.

[brunello97]

Ok, gentlemen, here is the pics to settle your questions about neck to body construction. Also, I removed the metal string holder at the tail, no evidence of anything else under there like a pin. Talked to Bill Halsey and we had a great conversation about his roll trying to get Gibson to start producing mandolins and banjo's again in the 70's, but they kept the focus on the guitar scene. Hope to meet him the end of the month. He really like the repair department at Elderly of Lansing.

Stretch Reinsmith, at Elderly, just completed a repair on my '16 Gibson A this winter. Seamless, flawless, you name it. Great craftwork and the mandolin plays like a dream. Count me as a recommender.

Mick

[danb]

Look at the left-most photo folks- a great illustration of construction on the early ones. The top is huge. Look at it, it's the same thickness as the neck after the join!

The sides incorporate the heel- same piece!

Ok, gentlemen, here is the pics to settle your questions about neck to body construction.

[Goodin]

Look at the left-most photo folks- a great illustration of construction on the early ones. The top is huge. Look at it, it's the same thickness as the neck after the join!

The sides incorporate the heel- same piece!

Whoa, interesting build method. I'm still unclear how the top and neck join up. Are they one piece? Maybe another side pic which shows more of the side would help. It would be great to see what the join looks like under the fretboard if the fretboard should need to be removed.

There is so much wood on these early ones, I bet they are quite heavy and don't have much tone or volume.

[Bmaverick]

I received this interesting article of the evolution of the mandolin and banjo. Thought I would share it.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/d/rdevelli...mbs%20text.htm

[Bmaverick]

I also received this article that was very interesting.
Musical Maidens of Kalamazoo Charm Audiences with Merry Melodies That Help Sell Small Goods

KALAMAZOO, MICH., Nov. 13. 1922.. a number of Kalamazoo young women organized the Gibson lelody Maids, one purpose was to provide good instrumental programs which would be popular at meetings of clubs. But they have done more than that. In fact, they have stimulated an interest in small goods wherever they have appeared, or wherever they have been heard, to be exact, for one of their recent successes was in a radio concert given at the Detroit "News" broadcasting station.

The Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Co. of this city has found that these musical maidens are an aid to dealers who wish to stimulate the sale of small goods.

And the Gibson Melody Maids are filling engagements in various towns and cities near here.

Manufacturer Ties Up Ads with Radio Concert

During a recent month the major portion of the Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Co.'s advertisements in national magazines featured a picture of the Gibson Melody Maids Orchestra and announced the radio concert at Detroit. Previous to the concert the news service bureau released three news articles and mats of the halftone picture of the Melody Maids orchestra.

These releases were sent to hundreds of newspapers within "listening" range of Detroit, many of which published the interesting announcement at the request of local music dealers. Also, all Gibson representatives on the continent were notified of the concert so that there were hundreds of audiences prepared to listen in and hear the music of the Gibson string orchestra as it was carried through the air.

Although general conditions were not particularly favorable for broadcasting on the evening of the concert, and there was apparently an unusual amount of interference, reports have been received from various parts of the United States and Canada and from Cuba, complimenting the Gibson Melody Maids on the excellence of their program and commenting particularly on the unusual tonal quality of the orchestra. The ■solidity of tone produced by the complete Gibson in


The Gibson Melody Maids

strumentation, which includes mando-bass, mando-'cellos, mandolas and mandolins, was quite surprising to the persons who had not had an opportunity to hear the full balanced mandolin orchestra and who had formed their opinions from hearing amateur mandolin clubs. The latter, while effective in their way, are far from complete, inasmuch as they consist mostly of treble instruments, usually first and second mandolins and guitar accompaniments.

The modern mandolin orchestra, as exemplified by the Gibson Melody Maids, provided a most satisfactory ensemble for the performance of chamber music and popular and classical orchestrations, all of which were exemplified on the Detroit "News" radio program. In addition, the orchestra furnished accompaniments for vocal solos by Miss Doris Oliver, soprano, and supplied a most satisfactory foundation and background, not only for the solos but for the chorus and quartet singing.

An interesting part of the program was provided by Leonard Grinnell and Lincoln Gibson, who demonstrated tenor banjos in several duets and arrangements of popular numbers. The banjos carried very well over the radio and the remarkable playing of Mr. Grinnell and Mr. Gibson occasioned much favorable comment from radio fans. Mr. Grinnell is the only son of Elmer Grinnell, one of the members of the Grinnell Bros, firm.





In Kalamazoo, Michigan, a guitarist named Orville Gibson created a revolutionary new style of

mandolin built on the principles of violin construction. He believed that wood produced the best

tone when it was in an unstressed state. To avoid the stress inherent in bowlback construction,

Gibson carved the top of his instrument into an arched shape, similar to that of the violin. Ideally, as

he stated in his patent, the back, sides, and neck should be carved out of a single piece of wood, but

he admitted that this was impractical. He did carve the back in a shallow bowl shape, using walnut

rather than the rosewood of the typical bowlback. He applied his new concepts to two new designs.

His A-style had a symmetrical pear-shaped body, considerably wider than a bowlback. His F-style

represented a more radical departure from tradition, with a scrolled upper bass bout and three body

points.

Orville Gibson’s instruments were bigger, stronger and louder than any bowlback, and both the Astyle and the F-style were immediately successful. He became a full-time instrument maker in 1896;

within six years he could no longer meet the demand by himself, so in 1902 he sold his patent to five

3individuals who formed the Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Mfg. Co., Ltd. The Gibson company

proceeded to become the strongest force in raising the mandolin to new heights of popularity, and

both of Orville Gibson’s designs—the A-style and the F-style—remain the standards for American

mandolin makers today.

Gibson’s first general manager was a music-store owner, Sylvo Reams, and the first sales manager

(later general manager) was a former mandolin teacher, Lewis Williams. Reams foresaw the difficulty

a new company would have in convincing instrument dealers to accept a radical new product, so he

found a more direct route to the player—through teachers. Williams could not only communicate

with teachers based on his own experience, he could also promote Gibson mandolins with

evangelical fervor. He went on the road recruiting “teacher-agents” who received a commission on

every Gibson they sold—effectively bypassing music stores. Williams took a leading role in the

American Guild of Banjoists, Mandolinists and Guitarists (which held its first convention,

appropriately, in 1902, the year the Gibson company was founded). He championed standardized

notation and promoted those publishing companies who supported it. He encouraged the formation

of mandolin groups, and if they all played Gibsons, he printed their photograph in Gibson catalogs

and advertisements under the caption “Every One a Gibson-ite.” He also contributed to Gibson’s

ongoing improvements to Orville’s original design, improvements that included maple back and

sides (or birch in the lower models), compensating bridges for better intonation, and eventually

height-adjustable bridges.

The mandolin permeated American musical culture in the early twentieth century. On the serious

side, Providence, Rhode Island, became a center of study. Giuseppe Pettine, a native of Italy, was

the most famous teacher, and his students included William Place Jr., who would later be billed as

“America’s Greatest Mandolin Virtuoso.” On the entertainment side, James H. Johnstone, a.k.a. The

Musical Johnstone or Jumping Jimmie Johnstone, entertained vaudeville crowds with his

performance of “Yankee Doodle Backwards,” in which he played the tune “frontwards” but turned

his back to the audience and put his mandolin behind his head. Other vaudeville acts, such as the

Noss Jollity Company or the Masqueria Sisters, adopted the foppish attire of the Spanish Students

and moved about the stage as they performed.

Throughout the country, in towns and in colleges, mandolin enthusiasts formed amateur “club”

groups, typically ranging in size from quartets and quintets to larger ensembles of a dozen or more.

Teachers organized their students into groups. For special events, promoters would put together

huge groups of 100 players or more; in 1910 the Wurlitzer music company of Chicago signed up 500

players (including some violinists and wind instrumentalists) for a “Mammoth Mandolin Orchestra,”

and the company announced plans to go for a 1,000-piece group. The Gibson company sponsored

The Gibsonians, which at one time included employees Lloyd Loar (a well-known soloist before his

employment with Gibson) and the ex-vaudevillian Jimmie Johnstone. Gibson also sponsored The

Gibson Melody Maids, a group of female employees. Many groups included women or were made

up entirely of women, and judging by photographs from the period, the mandolin era had the widest

participation by women of any popular music movement in history.

[Bernie Daniel]

In some ways that top board reminds me of a the grain on some western red cedar shingles I had on a house years ago -- did Gibson ever use cedar back then?

[Bmaverick]

Hi Bart,

This is a historically significant mandolin. 2526 was the earliest known Gibson factory mandolin until yours turned up:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/2526

The top of your instrument is most likely spruce. I don't know about the back. Most later Gibsons have birch backs, but 2526 almost looks like oak to me (I'm not a wood expert). It isn't mahogany.

Where are you located? Yours needs a lot of repair and should be handled by a Gibson specialist to maximize its resale value. Correctly restored, it could be worth several thousand dollars, but if poorly restored it could be worth next to nothing.

I wouldn't try to make a new tailpiece for it. It's probably worth having a couple of new tabs soldered onto the existing tailpiece. It is missing the cover, but a new cover can be bought or fabricated.

There are just a handful of restoration specialists in the USA to whom I would entrust a rare Gibson like this. Seriously. Don't try to fix it yourself; let us know where you're located and we'll help you figure out where to take it.

After showing it to Bill H., it is determined that both the back and main side shell is walnut. Similar back design as the 1902 U harp on Mandolin Archives, referring to the way the edges are carved out.

[MyName1sMud]

Wow! Nice Mandolin!

[Burk]

That is so cool! Thanks for sharing!