1902 Gibson Mandolin Model A , 6th one built by Gibson

[Bmaverick]

Not sure what to do with this newly acquired Gibson. I believe it was their 6th one made as the serial number is 2506. The bottom shell has a piece out of it where it is very thin and probably dropped at one time.
Are they worth more as they are or repaired and restored? Does anyone know if these are mahogany or redwood?
There are 2 tabs missing at the bottom for the 2 larger strings, should I try to make a new one? I believe this one may be missing a Gibson plate that covers the strings at the bottom also.
Anyone have an idea on the value? Thanks, Bart

[Goodin]

Wow. This is the earliest Gibson mandolin known to still exist based on records at The Mandolin Archive. Definitely get that cracked fixed and an overall check up. In the meantime de-tune the strings if you see any top sinkage. This is a historically significant instrument. Thanks for sharing!

[mrmando]

Hi Bart,

This is a historically significant mandolin. 2526 was the earliest known Gibson factory mandolin until yours turned up:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/2526

The top of your instrument is most likely spruce. I don't know about the back. Most later Gibsons have birch backs, but 2526 almost looks like oak to me (I'm not a wood expert). It isn't mahogany.

Where are you located? Yours needs a lot of repair and should be handled by a Gibson specialist to maximize its resale value. Correctly restored, it could be worth several thousand dollars, but if poorly restored it could be worth next to nothing.

I wouldn't try to make a new tailpiece for it. It's probably worth having a couple of new tabs soldered onto the existing tailpiece. It is missing the cover, but a new cover can be bought or fabricated.

There are just a handful of restoration specialists in the USA to whom I would entrust a rare Gibson like this. Seriously. Don't try to fix it yourself; let us know where you're located and we'll help you figure out where to take it.

[Dave Reiner]

There are older ones whose photos are not in the Archive. This one from 1901 was signed by Orville Gibson. It plays ok, although the action is a bit high. I concur with the advice to be very cautious about restoration.

Dave

[sunburst]

Except for the damage to the back, it looks like it's in pretty good shape. Personally (my opinions, here) I'd have it repaired by an experienced repair person who understands proper materials and techniques, and how to minimize the amount of work and come up with good results. A good repair should end up minimally visible and involve no more of the instrument and it's finish than necessary.
I'd add another tailpiece with matching screw holes and keep that one (if it is original to the mandolin) as is. An added, serviceable tailpiece that requires no modification to the instrument for installation can be swapped back to original at any time and would have no effect on value.

[mrmando]

There are older ones whose photos are not in the Archive. This one from 1901 was signed by Orville Gibson.

Righto, but I think the point here is that Bart's mandolin is the earliest known post-Orville mandolin from what was then the brand-spankin' newly organized Gibson Company.

[Bmaverick]

I am in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I do have a friend in the UP who plays violin professionally. She knows an older man that is a expert luthier (I think that is how you spell it). The wood on these does have the grain texture of spruce but this is much darker color. Is that because of the age?
I picked up this unit yesterday at a garage sale from an older deaf mute family. I think the old man died and so they were clearing out everything. I suppose that being close to the original factory here in Kalamazoo, that is how they may have acquired it.
I am surprised at how thin the wood is on the back.
I have known several people that worked at Gibson, including my uncle. In fact, Floyd Newton just died, he was the father of a guy I work with everyday. He did much of the custom painting and finishing of Gibson guitars and Heritage guitars. One was in the Prince movie, "Purple Rain".
I agree that the tailpiece could be silver soldered.

[Bmaverick]

Thanks for the info.
I do understand the workings of wood as I have worked with some friends who build and restore old antique wood boats.
When looking at the tail piece cover with the words " The Gibson". Were those pieces simply chromed steel? And could not one be made and have a professional engraver duplicate the writing?

[Bmaverick]

I have noticed on this Gibson mandolin that on the tail piece there is no button for a strap. Was it intended to be held like a uke back then with out a strap?

[mrmando]

Bart, you should take this to Elderly Instruments in East Lansing:
http://elderly.com/

Elderly is one of the top three or four dealers/repair shops of vintage Gibsons in the country, and it's within driving distance of Kalamazoo. They'll be able to do a minimally invasive repair, make a reliable appraisal of value, and even sell it on consignment for you. I'd recommend calling them and asking to speak to Stan Werbin. I'm sure he'll be interested.

General woodworking knowledge isn't quite sufficient here ... one needs to be familiar with the specific materials and techniques that were used to build the instruments originally. Things changed a lot at Gibson over the years ... the way your uncle's generation did things was a lot different than the way they were done in 1902.

I'm not sure if your tailpiece is steel or brass. There are lots of vintage tailpiece covers floating around ... it might be cheaper to acquire one than to fabricate one from scratch.

And yes, it was meant to be played sitting down. Most Gibsons do have endpins, but those weren't meant to be strap buttons. Playing mandolin with a strap didn't really become popular until the 1940s.

[bluegrasser78]

Found at Garage sale don'tever give up on them kind of sales fellas!!,,Something sweet is bound to surface from time to time!,if ya go by certain known serial #'s there's many missing high end instruments just waiting to be found,,,Reminds me of an estate sale pretty close to my home about 10-12 years ago when a Loar F-5 was found in a guncabinet and sold for a woppin 800 Bucks,yep 800 bucks!!!!!!!!! In my backyard! Some lucky fella was at the right place right time!

[danb]

Nice one Bart- that is indeed the earliest (factory) Gibson Mandolin we've seen.. We reckon they started their serials at 2500 or 2501. I'd appreciate if you could take a few more photos in high res, we'd love to add them to the mandolin archive.

[woodwizard]

Except for the damage to the back, it looks like it's in pretty good shape. Personally (my opinions, here) I'd have it repaired by an experienced repair person who understands proper materials and techniques, and how to minimize the amount of work and come up with good results. A good repair should end up minimally visible and involve no more of the instrument and it's finish than necessary.
I'd add another tailpiece with matching screw holes and keep that one (if it is original to the mandolin) as is. An added, serviceable tailpiece that requires no modification to the instrument for installation can be swapped back to original at any time and would have no effect on value.

If anyone could fix this right for you it would be sunburst from what I've seen and heard here on the cafe'... Seriously he knows what he's doing. He understands proper materials and techniques, and how to minimize the amount of work and come up with good results.

[Jim Garber]

Very cool... I was about to ask about the tailpiece and if that was original and then I looked at 2526 in the archives. Phew!!

[mrmando]

Looks like the 2526 tailpiece is missing a tab too.

Maybe from a conservator's standpoint, John's idea makes the most sense: craft a new tailpiece that matches the existing screw holes and don't do anything to the old one ... just keep it with the mandolin.

[danb]

5 screws and no endpin hole on the earliest ones- and also no tailblock!

The tailpiece cover on 2526 is not typicaly- it was likely filed smooth by the owner. Sometimes those pineapple tailpiece covers stab your forearm! I've seen a number that were either filed or bent to blunt the sharp parts.

[Jim Garber]

It looks to me that these tailpieces were hand crafted and not manufactured by machine at this early point.

[Bmaverick]

From what I have learned from my friends that play violin professionally, come to find out there is an expert viola repair person right here in Kalamazoo. I suppose that is convenient as we have Western Michigan University here with a school of music.

[Bmaverick]

You are right, there is no tailblock inside So how did they hold it, either on their lap or like a uke? Most spruce that I know is very light in color, yet this is so redish brown. I did also find a crack in the wood at the tail piece mount.

[Bmaverick]

Great info, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have been to Elderly music years ago in Lansing so I do know where they are at.
It still puzzles me how this wood (apparently spruce) is so dark in color compared to what I am familiar with. Perhaps the aging of the wood. Looks a lot like rosewood.
If I take it to be repaired, shouldn't I remove the valuable oval serial number/ name paper logo. Best way to do so? Steam or getting under it with flat razor blade? Sounds risky since it is such an important part of the instrument and its history.

[Bmaverick]

Tailpiece is plated brass, perhaps nickel plated, with steel screws. Unique cuts in it between the string openings, like they first bent it over, then took a round rotary cutter tool and cut the spaces between the string tangs.

[Bmaverick]

Here are some hi res photos for you.
Hey Bluegrasser78, yes garage sales are great. These old timers that had tons of antique stuff, much of which I do not know the demand or value of. Including old theater lighting, lead fabricating tools, scales, butter churns etc. When I first saw this sitting on the top shelf with lots of other junk outside, I thought it might be an interesting art piece to hang on the wall. Then I looked at it and saw the trade mark label and got excited. I missed this same sale the week previous that they also had and no one bought it then. I couldn't turn it down for $15.

[Steve Davis]

No neck block either? How different.

[BradKlein]

Hey BMav,

Thanks for sharing the photos. You're going to give everyone around here heart trouble if you keep talking about working on this instrument yourself. Take it to Elderly. And keep us informed if you're willing. It's valuable monetarily, but it's also of great historical interest to those who love the American mandolin. Congratulations.

[Jake Wildwood]

It still puzzles me how this wood (apparently spruce) is so dark in color compared to what I am familiar with. Perhaps the aging of the wood. Looks a lot like rosewood.

It's called oxidation.