1917 F4 Questions

**CavScout** · Jun-29-2012, 4:38pm

Hi,

I have a 1917 F4 currently on 3-day approval. I am not an expert on vintage instruments but I have always wanted an F4 and the price seemed right on this one. However, I have discovered a couple of issue:

1) On the label inside the mandolin I can only make out "F4". It's not clear if anything else was ever written on the label but if so it is completely gone at this point. With no info on the label...how do I know this is a 1917 model?

2) The D, A, E courses are fine but the G course has a buzz from the 5th to12th frets. This F4 has no truss rod and has the original non-adjustable bridge. Should I consider the buzz a deal breaker or is this repairable? My concern here is that if it was fixable...the dealer would have done it already.

Aesthetically this is a beautiful instrument...but I guess that might mean it would be great in a museum but not necessarily to play.

Any advice/suggestions...greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

**sunburst** · Jun-29-2012, 4:58pm

1) Removing the label would probably reveal a penciled serial number written on the wood of the back. Removing and replacing the label with no damage is not a simple thing, is it worth it to confirm the year?

2) Probably an easy fix, relatively speaking.

**CavScout** · Jun-29-2012, 5:46pm

I think I have isolated the buzz to a bow in the neck on the bass side. I don't see the same dip on the treble side.
Thx!

**Bob DeVellis** · Jun-29-2012, 6:33pm

A 1917 F4 should have the fancy Handel inlaid tuner buttons, which were gone some time in 1918. If it has those, it's likely a 1917 or earlier model. There are other details that might narrow the range but if it's claimed as a 1917 and has the fancy buttons, it seems likely that it is.

**Gary Hedrick** · Jun-29-2012, 6:36pm

Check the neck block for the FON and with Joe Spann's book you should be able to pin down the year

**CavScout** · Jun-29-2012, 6:38pm

Thanks Gary!

**CavScout** · Jun-29-2012, 6:39pm

Yep this one has the Handel tuner buttons.

**G7MOF** · Jun-30-2012, 2:45am

Ask the dealer how he/she came up with the year!

**CavScout** · Jun-30-2012, 3:01pm

Thanks again for the replies. I took the mandolin to a luthier today and he installed a 1mm shim under the bass foot of the bridge and then refit the bridge to the instrument. Buzz is gone and the tone seems to actually have improved. I think its a keeper.

Click image for larger version.

Name: 1917_F4.jpg
Views: 100
Size: 294.7 KB
ID: 88623

**Spruce** · Jun-30-2012, 3:05pm

Can we see a shot of the back?
Thanks!

**CavScout** · Jun-30-2012, 3:16pm

Sure!

Click image for larger version.

Name: 1917_F4_BACK.jpg
Views: 119
Size: 255.8 KB
ID: 88624

**danb** · Jul-01-2012, 9:59am

Gorgeous F4- looks like a keeper to me too!

Dating it is also possible from a factory stamp- look up above the label with a flashlight, you shoudl see a 4-digit number in ink.

We can also confirm 1917 or earlier due to the inlaid tuner buttons and size/shape of the pickguard!

**blueron** · Jul-01-2012, 10:33am

Oh my, that is a thing of considerable beauty. And nearly a century old, too. Great find!

rm

**CavScout** · Jul-01-2012, 12:00pm

Originally Posted by danb

Gorgeous F4- looks like a keeper to me too!

Dating it is also possible from a factory stamp- look up above the label with a flashlight, you shoudl see a 4-digit number in ink.

We can also confirm 1917 or earlier due to the inlaid tuner buttons and size/shape of the pickguard!

OK! Thanks...I'll check that out. I have looked at the label under different types of light and it does appear that originally it was completely filled out. Over time I guess it has just faded to the point that its no longer legible. Do you think a black-light would do anything?

**Ken Waltham** · Jul-01-2012, 12:58pm

That's a really nice F4 in fine original condition.
Don't sell that one.

**CavScout** · Jul-02-2012, 6:39pm

Originally Posted by danb

Gorgeous F4- looks like a keeper to me too!

Dating it is also possible from a factory stamp- look up above the label with a flashlight, you shoudl see a 4-digit number in ink.

We can also confirm 1917 or earlier due to the inlaid tuner buttons and size/shape of the pickguard!

The 4-digit number is 3639. Thanks Dan.

**Gary Hedrick** · Jul-02-2012, 6:53pm

So it is a 1916......according to Spann

**CavScout** · Jul-02-2012, 7:04pm

Originally Posted by Gary Hedrick

So it is a 1916......according to Spann

Thanks Gary. That's interesting. I wish I could make out the label info...don't think it's going to happen tho.

And thanks again to everyone for all of the info. It's been very helpful!

**Greenmando** · Jul-04-2012, 8:22pm

You might be able to read the label with other lighting. I would try black light first, move to a red lens, blue lens. Faded ink can appear readable under the right light at times.

**sunburst** · Jul-04-2012, 8:26pm

Gibson labels, at least in the more "common" later instruments, had penciled numbers. I don't know what light would help for that, but it may not be faded ink at all.

**CavScout** · Jul-04-2012, 10:59pm

Thanks a lot. I will try under different lights. I did try photographing the the label and then messing around with high contrast with varied brightness in photoshop. No success with that. I do believe the label was done in pencil. The only thing that's legible is "F4" and that appears to be in pencil. Thanks again!