lacquer problem

[multidon]

Greetings all!

I recently completed my first lacquer job, a partial refinish (back and sides) and after much sturm und drang I finally thought I completed it and did a reasonably good job. Afterwards I swore off lacquer completely (not liquor, LACQUER! ) I have come to the conclusion that it is not the finish for me; any future projects will be more amateur-friendly products. But as I was going over my project, perfectionist and nit-picker that I am, I noticed a funny looking place about the size of an elongated quarter. It looked matte (the rest of the 10 coat finish is polished to a very high gloss) and a bit lower than the rest. I did a drop fill with some additional lacquer and let it dry overnight. In the morning, I discovered that the spot was unchanged and the additional lacquer had pushed off to either side of the spot, forming little "walls" of lacquer around it. I now have an obvious crater. It's almost as if the spot is rejecting the lacquer. Any insights on exactly what may be happening and how to correct it would be appreciated!

[bryce]

Sounds like something got on the finish in that area contaminating(sp) it thats affecting the finish. Sounds like a large fisheye. By the size of it, maybe from finger/thumb print.

[EdHanrahan]

Sounds like something got on the finish ... maybe from finger/thumb print.

Every so often I've been surprised by a drop of sweat falling from my (fairly short) beard, because I just don't feel it. Could be easy to miss?

[Dale Ludewig]

Sounds like contamination to me also. Water of some form can cause a problem but it wouldn't last; you'd be able to recoat just fine, probably. It sounds like it could be a thumb print. Hand lotion, even some hand cleaners can do this. Don't ask how I know. You might be able to clean it off using naptha. Or go to the auto supply store and buy a can of GON or something like that, made for removing grease, oil, wax, etc. before finishing. After that you should be able to recoat. It "sounds" too large to be silicone produced fisheye to me. MHO.

[John Arnold]

Fisheye can occur from any contamination, including oils in the wood itself. Also, make sure your polishing compound does not contain any silicone. I only use 3M polishes.
If you drop fill a spot like this, the lacquer needs to be fairly thick. Put a small amount in an open container for a day or two to let it thicken.
Alternately, you can spray very light coats until you get coverage over the problem area.

[multidon]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I decided to sand back down to bare wood. I figured it was the only way to be absolutely sure I'd gotten rid of the contamination. After that, 3-4 coats a day for 3 days, let it dry 3 days, level sand and polish with micro mesh. Problem solved! Looks fine. Finish stuck to the problem area no problem. Seems like I'm starting to get the hang of lacquer, but I still don't like it. Too much playing around and toxic to boot. There are so many safer and easier to use alternatives. I will be sticking to those in the future.

[sunburst]

...Seems like I'm starting to get the hang of lacquer...

Yes, I've thought that once or twice myself...

[Tony Francis]

Ha!

[multidon]

Yes, I've thought that once or twice myself...

John- I know that you are an expert on lacquer. In fact I was a little disappointed that you didn't chime in to help me with my problem. One experience certainly does not make me an expert, but I did learn a lot about what it will do, what it doesn't do, and the pitfalls you can encounter. I have done projects using poly, wipe on varnishes, and oil based violin varnish. All of the above were infinitely easier in my opinion than lacquer. So now that my project is FINALLY successful I will go back to the friendlier finishes. I have some leftover and I may use it for drop fill repairs but I learned even that has pitfalls. And another thing I've learned is a healthy respect for the professional luthiers who use this nasty stuff all the time and know what they're doing. My hat's off to you!

[sunburst]

Sorry to disappoint, but I looked at the thread and saw good answers already here so felt no need to add anything.
Lacquer is an easy finish, with the right equipment and a little experience. All finishes have their little surprises from time to time, their good and bad qualities, no matter how experienced we are we still run across a problem sometimes, and thus loose that feeling that we're "getting the hang of it". It's sort of like when I was trying to learn to snow ski. I'd think I was getting the hang of it, I'd be tucked and gliding down the mountain, having fun, and the next thing I'd know, I was rolling and tumbling once again.
Other finishes are much easier for hobby work, or when the space, time, and expense of specialized equipment don't fit into the picture, but once we have a place to spray and learn to use good spray equipment, lacquer is pretty easy and very forgiving... usually... until that whole rolling and tumbling thing happens again. I've never had a thumb-print-sized "fisheye" before, but now I know it can happen from reading this thread! (My time will come, no doubt...)

[Marty Jacobson]

So.. when do we get to see the successful finish? Eh?

[multidon]

I will try to get pictures up soon. When I say "successful" I mean it satisfies me enough that I don't want to pitch it. It is not a perfect or professional finish but pretty good considering what I had to work with (brushing lacquer because I don't really have a good place to spray). A nit picker looking at it with a magnifying glass would find some tiny flaws for sure. And some would say that using Micro Mesh doesn't truly polish, but just leaves scratches so fine they are hard to see. True, but it's close enough to polished to satisfy me. I figure I don't usually play mandolin while holding a magnifying glass, and most of the people who listen to me don't bring one either.

[sunburst]

...some would say that using Micro Mesh doesn't truly polish, but just leaves scratches so fine they are hard to see...

That all polishing is; making the scratches smaller and smaller until they are so small we can't see them.

[TijnBerends]

That all polishing is; making the scratches smaller and smaller until they are so small we can't see them.

And after all, a problem we cannot see is a problem that's not really there anyway!:D

[multidon]

[Pribar]

Very nice, I know you had a lot of frustration but the end result should be worth it

[re simmers]

Don, it looks very good.
I started restoring antiques a few yrs ago, using different finishes...with similar tough experiences. It takes more than one time.
Don't give up on laquer after just one experience. 2nd time will be much easier, 5th time will be even easier. I'm not a luthier, but I doubt that even the best have less trouble the first time using laquer.

Bob