Changes in Collings since 2002?

[shiloh]

Hi everyone,
Not sure where to post this? (I'll try the Collings Social Group, too.)

I'm considering a 2002 MT2, blonde birdseye maple from Gryphon in Palo Alto (I live in San Diego and will not be able to play the mandolin prior to purchase).

http://www.gryphonstrings.com/instpix/38038/38038.php

Is the MT2 from 10 years ago the same radius, and neck profile as they are now? I have played new Collings mandolins and know what they feel like, but is there a possibility that the necks were fatter (or skinnier) back then? The tailpiece is original Collings I am told but not the newest, cast design, so that is one change. The asking price is almost $2900 which sounds a bit high? It has a Fishman bridge pickup and, as mentioned, beautiful birdseye maple.

I've had a nasty left-hand injury so certain neck profiles can be a real problem for me. I love, love, love the compound radius on the Collings mandolins.

Any comments are appreciated!

Thanks!
Jill

[Markus]

I wouldn't ruling out calling or emailing Collings directly.

Hope it works out for you, no doubt a great mandolin.

[F-2 Dave]

Hey Jill, I really like the radius fretboard on my MT. It's one of the most comfortable that I've tried. Sorry I can't speak to the differences in the neck profiles, radius, etc. You might email Collings with your questions. I've talked with them a couple of times and always found them to be friendly and helpful.

2.9K may not be too far out of line (if any) especially if the birdseye maple was considered an upgrade. Plus if the pickup is something that you can use, you'd already have that done.

It sure is a striking looking mandolin and sounds really nice in the sound clip provided. Gryphon is a first rate shop. If I had to buy from anyone without getting to play first, they'd be on my list of stores I feel comfortable dealing with. You might see If they have a return policy. That way you'd only be out shipping if it's not to your liking.

Good luck,
Dave

[Joe Mendel]

Why not ask the folks at Gryphon? They'll likely know the answers.

[pjlama]

Everytime I've called Collings they answer the phone right away and answer every question no matter how small. I think the guy I've spoken to there is named Mark.

[pjlama]

Here's the number; (512) 288-7776

[barrangatan]

Jill - I have no idea about the difference in neck profile etc. But have you also seen the MT2-O they have at Gryphon? That flamed maple back is to die for (well... not literally of course): http://www.gryphonstrings.com/instpix/38907/38907.php

Hope you find the info you're looking for, and keep us all posted

[shiloh]

Hi guys.
I did speak with Tom at Gryphon today. I used to live near there and they do a great job! He grabbed the MT-2 and took some measurements and answered all the questions he could. He compared the neck profile to that of a new Collings MT and he said the "birdseye" MT-2 (which I'm interested in) has more of a V shape to the neck profile vs. a softer, D shape on the new Collings. Not necessarily a show stopper, but I've never played one like that....
I'll call the good folks at Collings and ask a few questions of them as well.
Clement, I did see the MT2-O (online) that they have listed. Based upon the sound samples, I (surprisingly) like the tone of the F-holes better than the oval. And what I believe is true is that the F-hole MTs are tone-bar braced while the oval-hole MTs are X-braced. At least that's what I think I know!
Jill

[Grommet]

Jill-Although I have seen one or two of the older MT2's offered for much much less, that has only been from private sellers on the Cafe classifieds, and without that snazzy birdseye maple, or the security of buying from a reputable dealer like Gryphon. I have only played the newer MTs and MT-2s so I can't compare necks to the older MT2 model. To me the newer ones seemed to have more v-shaped neck profiles than what I usually play, but perhaps less than some narrow necked-Gibsons I've tried. Unfortunately, all the Collings mandolins I 've tried felt "Just Right" to me. I hope you go for it!

Scott

[Bob Grieco]

Jill, I have read threads on this forum that speak of a harder V shape on the early Collings mandolins as compared to the newer ones but not much at all is/was posted about the actual differences in neck 'girth' or radius changes. Unless the instrument was special ordered direct from Collings w/ those specified preferences. My MT from early 2009 has a substantial V shape but less girth as compared to my A-Jr and my A-9 but it doesn't deter my technique. By the look of the fret wear in the close up picture, you should consider that they will need to be replaced sooner than later, especially after you receive it and play the heck out of it. So add another $300 (give or take $50) to the already steep price - w/ birdseye & pick-up install upgrades. The total pre-owned price w/ a re-fret & new/better? tailpiece added may be VERY close (if not more) to a brandy spankin' new one (minus the birdseye and the pick-up) that comes w/ Collings warranty - Then again, if THAT particular instrument w/ its pale blonde color and birdseye b&s does something to you personally (MAS wise), then what I'm warning you of is all a wash - Especially if the sound of it knocks you out.
Good luck, and enjoy the hunt.
Bob G

[Grommet]

Good eye on the worn frets Bob. Ask for a price adjustment Jill!

Scott

[shiloh]

Still considering and negotiating! My friend has a beautiful MF5 (quilted one-piece back) and I played it yesterday and noted it, too, shows the same fretware. Her MF5 is only a couple years old. But plays wonderfully!
I have a call in to Mark at Collings re: neck profile of older instruments. From the pics from Gryphon the neck looks like a really sharp V shape, but that is not a show-stopper. At least I don't think it is?
Also considering buying a new one and having Collings take the neck down just a wee bit in the back (neck profile) to accommodate my hand condition. I'm tempted to just drive up to Palo Alto and play the one Gryphon has (a 10 hour drive). But if any of you all live in the area I'd love for you to play it and tell me what you think! Tom (at Gryphon, and the one who plays all the MP3 demos) actually grabbed the mandolin for me yesterday and measured and double-checked everything. You gotta love those guys!
By the time I would order a new Collings MT2 with quilted or birdseye maple, and have a pickup, it would certainly be a lot more money!
Hmmm.
Jill

[if6was9]

I was curious so I stopped by Gryphon today to play this mandolin. Its neck profile is very similar to my MT2, serial number 245 (sorry I don't know offhand the year mine was made). The neck is notably V-shaped, very comfortable and normal feeling to my hand. I didn't think to look at the fret wear or anything like that. But in my experience with Gryphon (of which I have a LOT!) they are very honest and scrupulous about describing the condition of a used instrument. If you ask their opinion about how close it is to needing a re-fret, you will get a straight answer. The tone was consistent with other MT2's that I have played, meaning that I liked it Hope that helps, at least it is another data point.

[Mandobar]

The early neck profiles were rather pointy. They have gotten rounder over the past five years. You can get an idea from a picture of the back of the neck.

[shiloh]

Hey if6was9,

Wow! How cool is that, that you went and played the MT2 at Gryphon! Yes, I completely agree with you re: the integrity of all who work at Gryphon.
I have talked with the nice folks at Collings. Talked a lot about the neck profile. Of course they are happy trying to change or create a neck profile to suit me, but I really am a bit confused. I played an MT2 today at a jam session - don't know how old it is - and the neck was really quite "pointy." More so than I would have imagined. I actually felt it to be a bit "larger in circumference" than my friend's Collings MF 5, so I measured them both, side by side, and the MT2 was in fact a wee bit larger around at the first fret than the MF5 (both mandolins have the standard 1 1/8" nut). I've had trouble with hand pain playing my friend's MF5, so that makes me wonder about the MT2. Rats! I can't possibly tell Collings how to modify a neck profile for me if I don't know what I want, or how to explain it.
I did chat with Matt about the possibility of sending the MT2 from Gryphon down here so I can at least try it (but have not made the decision yet to do so). I'll never know if I don't play it - but I sure hate to spend the money and expose the mandolin to all the back and forth shipping should it not be a good "feel" for me. All this keeping in mind I've had a hand injury and I'm being really picky about neck profiles and such. So I'm taking more time to think this all over - hopefully I can sort this out soon, as my Collings MAS is driving me crazy (crazier). What would be nice is if I could play a lot of MT2s, all with different neck profiles, and find the one which suits me.
Jill

[Mandobar]

Jill,

Steve Miklas at Acoustic Music Works has gotten in a gorgeous new MT2 with an engelmann top. He also has some used MT2's, several wide necks and a blonde standard neck. Take a look at his website.

http://www.acousticmusicworks.com

He's a good guy, and Charlie Rappaport is generally there every day teaching and can play these for you and give you an idea of what their feel and sound is like. Charlie is the director of the Pittsburgh Mandolin Orchestra and I always ask Charlie to play the mandolins I am buying from Steve just to get his input.

here's the new mando

http://www.acousticmusicworks.com/MT22563.html

good luck. (and for those who are asking well, if it's so good why don't you buy it, i bought the oval hole blackface below it on steve's mandolin list)

[shiloh]

Hi Mary,
Congratulations on your blackface Collings. That is gorgeous - I love the one-piece back! I'd like to go with the one-piece quilted maple back.

I have tried to contact a local friend who has an MT2 (to no avail yet). Would like to sit down and play hers for awhile. I'm really nervous about ordering an MT2 from Collings without knowing exactly how they make the neck profile. A big investment to just "guess" at what I'm ordering. The primary reason for a special order is due to my hand injury. Very frustrating.

Jill

[Mandobar]

I now have a matching set. They made me an mt2 (f hole) last year. Although it does not have the James tailpiece. The rest is the same, including the one piece back. they are amazing instruments. the engelmann and the birdseye give the mandolins a big voice right out of the box.

[shiloh]

Mary,
What type of music do you play?
So you'd say the neck profile is less of a V shape now than they used to be? The one I played yesterday had a very pronounced V shape (I don't know how old the mandolin was). I don't really mind that, but with my hand injury I can't be certain it wouldn't cause me trouble....

Jill

[Mandobar]

I play everything from classical to some jazz. I had #67 for a while back n 2003. Very pointy neck. My next Collings was an MT. The neck profile is fuller, and on occasion I ask them to make it even fuller, more rounded.

[Jim M.]

I played that blond birdseye Collings new when Gryphon first had it. Beautiful instrument. I bought a different 2002 MT2 from Gryphon (#196). I loved the Collings sound but ended up selling mine because of the sharp v-neck. Many people found it comfortable, but for me the v irritated the inside of my thumb knuckle in a way that a more rounded neck doesn't.

[shiloh]

Just had a lesson with my mandolin instructor (Chris Acquavella) and we had a lengthy discussion of why some mandolins have a very pointy V shape and others don't. Then he demonstrated the advantage of, and the disadvantage of, having the sharp V neck. Hmm.

I really need to play one and find out. Would be great if I could rent a Collings MT2 for a week!

Jill
p.s. That might be a good business for someone - have a large inventory of very high-end rental mandolins for people to demo for a week.

[barrangatan]

p.s. That might be a good business for someone - have a large inventory of very high-end rental mandolins for people to demo for a week.

Funny you should say that Jill. I was just talking to my wife about it over the weekend, and she said how cool it would be if we can just 'rent' one of the Loar signed mandolins for a week from Gruhn's to try it out as my upcoming birthday gift. How cool indeed...

[Mandobar]

I had a shock when I sent a very expensive guitar from Maine to PA to place it on consignment. Overnight delivery was just shy of $350 and ground was $100. Between and insurance coverage it makes shipping instruments a bit risky and expensive for my tastes.

[sgarrity]

For what I've spent in shipping over the last year I could've bought a pretty nice mandolin!