The Etiquette of Mandolin Shopping and Playing- Any Advice?

[jman72]

I'm looking to buy my first quality mandolin (~$2-3k), and I have a question that you all should be able to answer for me, particularly those of you that have bought and sold many mandolins (and I know that many of you are actually in the business of selling fine instruments).

I don't know exactly what I want because I haven't really played very many mandolins in this price range. I've come close to buying online several times without actually playing them, but I just can't do it! I don't want to make the mistake of buying a mandolin I'm not super happy with.

So, I'm taking the advice many of you have given and I actually want to get out there and try some different brands and models before I jump into a purchase. My question for all of you is "What is the etiquette of mandolin shopping and playing"? For a guitar (I own several), I can just walk into the nearest big dealer and play what I want and walk out when I'm done playing (or buy if I find what I want). Nobody really cares, they just move on to the next customer, and for me, there is no commitment or guilt in the process.

But with mandolins (and of course, nicer boutique guitars as well), many dealers have small shops and a lot show instruments by appointment only. I'm a polite guy who was raised to respect peoples' time and effort, and I have been known to feel guilty about not buying something that someone has taken the effort to show me. I'm also a super savvy shopper who likes to think about a purchase of this magnitude before I buy and rarely make an on-the-spot purchase. So, how do you "shop around" for a mandolin and play as many as you can without unnecessarily taking up the time of hard-working dealers and not feeling guilty if you don't buy from someone after they've scheduled an appointment to meet with you? I might be driving hours to visit one shop or another, some in different states, and I don't want to feel undue pressure to buy if I'm not 100% satisfied.

Also, if you've got a $3k price limit, do you refrain from trying out that $10K mandolin just to see what the difference is, or do you play it (carefully) and feel lucky?

I ask this because I've had a bad experience in the past. When I was in graduate school I was looking to buy a nice dreadnought guitar and was basically asked to leave a well-known midwestern acoustic instrument shop because the owner didn't think I looked like I could buy (he never asked me any questions and of course, I never went back or bought from him). I know, near a college campus he probably got lots of kids coming through just wanting to play a Collings or Borgeois guitar and didn't want his expensive instruments scratched up. But, I'm not going to spend that kind of money for an instrument without shopping around and playing a few.

I want to play and try out instruments, buy a mandolin if I find THE one, but not feel guilty about leaving if I don't. So, how do you shoppers and sellers feel about the matter?

Thanks in advance.

[sunburst]

Sounds to me like you have good enough judgement to figure it out for yourself, and I think your approach is about right. Don't let a shop owner or employee make you feel pressured, but don't waste a lot of their time either, Be polite, be careful, and if a shop owner asks you to leave, don't go back.
I'm intimately acquainted with a music store proprietor, (my GF), and I've seen people walk into the store looking like they are homeless, or just coming in to get out of the weather because they don't have enough money to find shelter. I've see those people walk up to the Martin section and ask to try out HD-28s and such. I've seen them treated with all the respect that any customer receives and deserves, and I've seen them pay cash for a brand new HD-28 or some such. The lesson is, "you can't judge a book", and a good retailer will treat you with respect knowing that you might not find what you want, or you might make a purchase that very day. I've also seen people asked to leave the store, but they were being abusive to someone or something in the store, or spending undue time playing (and scratching) instruments with no apparent intention to buy.
Another thing. If you find an instrument that you like at a store, feel free to negotiate on the price, but don't say "I can get this on line for $XXXX, can you match that?". They can't, and they have allowed you to use their establishment to try out the instrument. You don't owe it to them to purchase an instrument if it is not what you want, but I feel like you owe it to them to buy from them if or when you find what you want in their store, rather than saying "thank you" and buying on line.

[Tim2723]

I think the attitude you're displaying right now is all you'll really need. If you demonstrate the same concerns for respect and carefulness that you've written about, you'll be fine. You can always buy some strings or other small purchases as a thank-you, but most dealers are not likely to throw you out.

[Jim]

I think most will allow you to try w/o pushing you too much to buy, they're gonna push a little bit because selling mandolins is their job. I believe if you tell them your situation first they can tell you theirs. Then if they don't want to let you try their instruments you don't buy from them. If you are going to drive a long way to try their stuff then you should call first to be sure you are not wasting their time and yours.

[allenhopkins]

I would walk right up to the dealer and tell him what you've told us. If it's a reputable dealer with a sizable, varied stock of mandolins, he's seen this scenario many times before. Applaud your intention of playing a selection of instruments "hands on" before making a purchase. Nowhere near as many stores with a selection of quality mandolins, as there are with a broad spectrum of acoustic guitars, so I hope you're able to find one.

As for trying instruments out of your price range, there are pitfalls. You may find that nothing you can afford measures up, after you've played that "Cadillac" instrument. On the other hand, nice to know what a top-rank instrument looks/feels/sounds like, so you can then compare the "affordable" selection in terms of those dimensions.

And second Jim's comment above. For many people, it's a day-or-more commitment to shop in a first-class mandolin dealer's store. A little prior discussion over the phone will clarify the situation for both of you. And the dealer may pull out an undisplayed mandolin from the back room, put a new set of strings on it, and offer it for your consideration. It's happened.

[jman72]

Good advice from everyone. I'm not really worried about getting asked to leave (I'm now a respectable professional, not a student- and I looked very respectable even then), but I still feel guilty if I go in someones shop and end up not buying anything, especially if someone has taken the time to help me out. I agree, letting the dealer know my wants and intentions from the start is important- that way, we both know what to expect.

[Steve L]

In addition to the good advice you've gotten, bring your business cards. If you don't find anything you want to buy that day ask the owner if he'll call or email you if something interesting in your price range turns up.

[foldedpath]

I think you're on the right track, except for the feeling guilty part, if you don't buy.

Any good retailer knows that people have different tastes, and will look for the instrument that speaks to them in a special way. That can't be predicted in advance. Especially at the price point (and above) that you're looking at, where small differences can matter. Just compliment the instrument while saying it isn't quite what you're looking for, thank the dealer and walk away guilt-free.

Here's one other tip that may help. If you're in a position where you can't decide between two mandolins at the same store, and both are strong candidates for purchase, then have someone else play them for you. Sometimes hearing the sound from a few feet away in another person's hands can be a good tie-breaker.

Also, I do recommend trying out instruments that are much more expensive that you can afford, just to establish the range of possibilities. If you're not at the point yet where you can hear a difference in tone, or feel a difference in playability with a much more expensive instrument, then you'll feel better about buying at your price point.

If you do hear a major difference compared to what you can afford right now, then it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be unhappy settlling for what you can afford. Musicianship is a journey, and those of us who have been lucky enough to find lifetime "keeper" instruments, didn't often get there in one jump. It's a natural process to move through a series of instruments over the years. As your ear and tastes evolve, you might want something different in a higher-end instrument than you do right now. Buying into the mid-range of better instruments gives you room to grow into something else later on.

[journeybear]

The most important rule is No "Stairway To Heaven!" Oh, wait - that's for guitars. Sorry ...

It sounds like you have already done a lot of thinking about this, and have already gotten a lot of good advice. I have distilled my method down to two chords and a few riffs, which I know how they sound so I can (hopefully) hear how well each mandolin proces them. These are the Mongo Em7 4-2-5-3 and my patented Elven D© 11-0-0-10. The first gives a good idea of the balance among the strings, so you can tell whether all the string have comparable presence, especially in the all-important first position. The second gives a good indication of the intonation (admittedly, adjustable) and balance between fretted and open notes, plus, well she is beautiful, no? As I said, I know how these chords sound, so variations between them from instrument to instrument are determined by the instrument, if you will. I also play a few riffs, to get a feel for the feel, and also the way the instrument sounds. You may want to work out some testing approach that is more suitable for yourself, but this is what I do. I can usually tell within a couple minutes what the story is.

If you are fortunate enough to have a bunch to choose from, an approach like this will narrow down the field pretty quickly to a few strong contenders. If you are stuck between two finalists, the advice about having someone else play them is real good. Mandolins sound different to listeners than players due to the angle of the sound production from the player's ears. Also, don't be shy about asking to play an instrument beyond your price range. You have to learn what makes an expensive instrument worth the money so hopefully you can find one you can afford that sounds almost, or even as, good.

Good luck!

[EdHanrahan]

Great advice here. Some shops (the worthwhile ones!) will bend over backward to be accommodating, regardless of your intention to buy right now or not.

When it was time for my first "good" acoustic guitar in '90 or so, the folks at (then very small) Music Villa in Bozeman, MT, led me thru a series of used & new Gibsons plus a custom Martin or two - even though they knew that we were car-camping across the country and unlikely to buy anything then. Other than one friend's D-28, they were the nicest batch of guitars that I had played. But the experience, and their graciousness, was eye-opening.

Little did I suspect that a year or three later, I'd be at Mandolin Brothers trying a bunch of stuff, including a '50s D'Angelico with a $40K pricetag! Got there a year or 2 ago and tried a bunch of stuff, including a Doyle Lawson F5 (for maybe 12 or 15K), even though my real interest was a far more modest teens Gibson A (eventually bought elsewhere). But Stan Jay can be an incredibly gracious host.

[Brutus1999]

Being cautioned about messing with $1,000 plus instruments is reasonable. Being asked to leave the store?

[Marcus CA]

Another thing. If you find an instrument that you like at a store, feel free to negotiate on the price, but don't say "I can get this on line for $XXXX, can you match that?". They can't, and they have allowed you to use their establishment to try out the instrument. You don't owe it to them to purchase an instrument if it is not what you want, but I feel like you owe it to them to buy from them if or when you find what you want in their store, rather than saying "thank you" and buying on line.

I agree completely, and understand how pissed merchants must get from having to compete with online prices. I also think that Allen made an important comment about your ongoing relationship with a store. I'm lucky enough to be within an hour of two stores that have great, but different instrument selections. I've bought a few instruments from each over the decades, but I've far more often gone in with no intent of buying an instrument. On those occasions, I generally buy something --- a set of strings, an instructional book or DVD --- to show my appreciation for getting to spend an hour there trying things out.

If you're in a position where you can't decide between two mandolins at the same store, and both are strong candidates for purchase, then have someone else play them for you. Sometimes hearing the sound from a few feet away in another person's hands can be a good tie-breaker.

Also, I do recommend trying out instruments that are much more expensive that you can afford, just to establish the range of possibilities. If you're not at the point yet where you can hear a difference in tone, or feel a difference in playability with a much more expensive instrument, then you'll feel better about buying at your price point.

I agree with the tiebreaker point, but only if it's really a tie for you. I've had situations where I liked the sound of a particular mandolin better when I was playing it than when someone else was. Because I don't record, and because I only play a few shows a year, I'm more concerned with how an instrument sounds to me while I'm playing it.

As for the "much more expensive" question, I try to stay away from that sort of temptation and remain happy with what I can afford at that moment.

[trevor]

Any good dealer should respond to your wishes and not judge you. Just explain yourself and you should be given plentiful time and advice and feel totally at ease to leave without buying.

The only thing I hate.. and yes it really *isses me off, is when folks say they are just off for a coffee/lunch and will be back later when they have no intention of coming back that day. I would much rather they said thanks very much I am going to think about it. About 95% of those 'going for coffee' don't come back.

[Gerry Hastie]

Any good dealer should respond to your wishes and not judge you. Just explain yourself and you should be given plentiful time and advice and feel totally at ease to leave without buying.

The only thing I hate.. and yes it really *isses me off, is when folks say they are just off for a coffee/lunch and will be back later when they have no intention of coming back that day. I would much rather they said thanks very much I am going to think about it. About 95% of those 'going for coffee' don't come back.

Trevor, I recall saying to you I was going for lunch when I bought my Summit! I think you knew I was serious though! A point I did learn from Trevor was a good one. Asking to put a deposit on something that you haven't played and expecting that it may be transferable to another instrument if you change your mind can be difficult for the store owner with high-end, hand made, non-production line instruments. Always check if the store has FAQs on the website regarding such issues. Having answers to some questions like that before getting in touch with a store can help with the whole ettiqutte thing.

Good luck with your purchase.

[Spencer]

Be sure you are not wearing something that will scratch the instruments, and if there is no pick guard, try not to scratch the top when you play.

You need to play/hear better, more expensive instruments than what you intend to buy. When I bought my first good guitar, I played everything he had in the store and went back to the Martin that I hadn't intended to pay that much for, and bought it anyhow. I never regretted it.

Spencer

[Ivan Kelsall]

It helps if you have a price range in mind to begin with.Try as many mandolins that take your fancy within that price range. However,if you do see a mandolin who's 'pedigree' you recognise as being good,don't hesitate to try it,simply to give you an idea maybe of the sound that you're looking for in the instruments in your price range.One thing not to do,is feel guilty about not buying there & then.If you find a store that has a good selection of instruments,there may be a couple or more instruments that you'd like to re-visit another time. Tell the store owner & they should be fine with that. If the store only has a few instruments,you'll need to shop around. After all,that's what the store are there for to begin with,& buying after trying isn't compulsary - just treat the instruments & dealers with respect. If the dealers don't treat you the same way,get out fast,you don't want anything to do with 'em,
Ivan

[trevor]

Hi Gerry,

Good point, I am often asked this, recently to hold an mandolin for two and a half months. My experience when I have done this is the customer very rarely buys the held instrument. In this case it might mean withholding it for 10 weeks and possibly loosing a sale in the mean time.

It is not surprising. Often the customer has 'chosen' the instrument they want me to hold based on others' opinion and what they have seen/read on my and other websites. When they visit they get to play 10-30 instruments, then they have the real information they need to make an informed choice.

[liestman]

I would also recommend that you take another player with you. Have them play the mandolins you like so you can judge how they sound out front and at a fair distance out front too. Not only will you be able to fully evaluate the instruments, but the shop will know that you are serious and made a deliberate, thought-out effort to come try the instruments.

[blueron]

Apologies for taking this off on a slight detour, but last week in a good music shop in Scotland, I was in the room that is filled with quality guitars when two very confident teenagers from the nearby (very expensive, elitist, even) high school came in. One of them reached up and plucked a $5000 Martin from the wall. When he turned around, the shop owner plucked it from his hands and said:

"Do you mind if I play your very expensive guitar?"

The kid didn't understand, smiled and reached back for the Martin.

"No, no, just a minute," said the shop owner. "Do you mind if I play your very expensive guitar?"

At last, the teenager got it. "Do you mind if I play your very expensive guitar?" he said.

"Not at all, sir, certainly," said the owner, handing him the guitar and directing him to a comfortable chair.

Lesson learned, I thought.

[barney 59]

I can remember what your going through. I wouldn't feel intimidated or feel as if your putting someone through a great deal of trouble by trying out instruments in a music shop. You actually ARE in the market to buy and that is what the store is there for,to sell you an instrument. That is their job,as your job is to find the instrument that is the right fit for you. As an older person now I've figured it out. I do look like the guy that walks into a music store and ends up walking out with an expensive instrument. People my age tend to have a little more disposable cash than young people. The sales people know that and anymore I get the red carpet treatment,get the run of the store and as much service as I want or don't want for that matter. I can ask to see the most expensive instrument in the store and they are happy to pull it down for me and I can play it all day if I want. The funny thing about it is that now I probably have more instruments than I need (if that is possible), I'm a little jaded and unless I try something that really knocks me out I'm not buying, just looking. I was more likely to end up buying an instrument back in the day when the sales people looked at me a little sideways when I came into a store where they didn't know me, where they seemed to a little reluctant to let me try an instrument. I was also more likely to buy from someone that treated me well and I was then likely to be a repeat customer. Private sellers are a whole different matter, and that all has to do with the personality of the seller. The rules still apply though. You are only committed to buying the mandolin that you want and if they want to sell the one they have they have to be accommodating to the potential buyers. They also have to be willing to take it on the chin when you say that your not interested in the instrument and you should be able to walk away without guilt.

[Jim]

The Irony mentioned here by several others is that, now that I'm the guy the music stores don't mind letting play their instrument I no longer need or particularly care to since I have several quite nice instruments myself. I never buy new and only go to music stores for strings or straps and seldom for those since the nearest is 90 miles.

[Tommando]

All really good advice here. I used to sell them in a music store. If they are hanging on the wall, they are there for you to try out. Don't feel guilty. The respect you've described, combined with not wearing clothes or jewelry that will scratch them, will open many doors. Let the salesmen hand them to you, and play all of them that you want to. Shop around, and tell them you'll be back if you think you will. I would tell them that you are looking to buy a decent instrument, but I wouldn't give them a specific price that you are willing to spend. A good salesman will figure out pretty quickly what you are looking for in quality and whether you are seriously looking to buy, and he may well show you some that aren't on the wall. A good salesman might also sell you something right then that you didn't intend to buy if he sees that you aren't really sure of what you are looking for. When you find what you are looking for, then tell them what you are able to spend on it. You probably can't tell from the sticker price what their cost in it is, so you might in fact buy a "more expensive" instrument than you thought you could afford. If you have indeed found the same instrument on the internet for a lower price than they will give you, I think it is fair to tell them. Sometimes they can beat the internet price because there's no shipping charge, plus give you a free setup in a few months. I think it is wrong to play the instruments with the intent to buy one on the internet, but I think the Internet should be an option. Playing the instruments and coming back to review a few of them is an opportunity to establish a relationship that could be important later.

[trevor]

"I wouldn't give them a specific price that you are willing to spend.." I find it very difficult to help customers who won't tell me how much they have to spend.. what do I show them, £500 mandolins or £10000 mandolins? I don't have anything that is not on the wall (or not on my website).. what would be the point of this? They are welcome to try any mandolin I have.

[Ivan Kelsall]

A very good point Ron - courtesy is all !. From Spencer - "Be sure you are not wearing something that will scratch the instrument". Another very good & important point. I had the back of my then 6 month old Weber Fern 'engraved' by a guy's 'Western belt' buckle after he'd been playing it.I did manage to polish the scratch out completely.
I totally agree Trevor - What's the point in directing customers to instrument totally outside their price bracket.By all means allow them to play more expensive instruments,but when it comes down to their actual purchase point,they need to tell you what they have to spend in order for you to advise them,
Ivan

[terzinator]

If I've enjoyed my time checking out the instruments, and I don't buy any of them, I always buy a pack of strings on my way out!

If it's a small shop, I might even say that to the staff on my way in... "I need some strings, but I wanted to see what you've got on the wall!"