What would you choose for a $5000 A-style?

[Cheryl Watson]

There is just no shortage of great mandolins in this price range and for that, we all should be thankful. My best case scenario (mandolin fantasy) would be to line up two or three A's (or two-points) from a wonderful variety of luthiers, play them all, take my time to find out what sounds best to me, what neck and fret radius feels best for me, what aesthetics appeal to me the most, and then make my decision. Of course, unless you are at a huge instrument show, that cannot be done, so for my mandolins, I did all the research I could and then chose a builder and all the details.

A new instrument will take time to break in but a lot of people enjoy breaking their new instrument. My Kimble (2009) sounded really nice from day 1, but it has really broken in over the last three years. It has a larger, fuller tone, the bottom end has come in a bit stronger and more defined (which is typical, I have heard, with red spruce) and the response has improved; the sound just pops out with less effort now. The volume has also increased. Will builds for an evenness across the strings, and not for a stand out bottom end. All these changes are from age, play time, and from using a Tonerite. An Engelmann top by the same builder would probably have a bit fuller, less cutting, and a more blooming tone; subtle changes, nothing drastic, unless it is paired with a softer species of maple for the back and sides. For the music I play, the red spruce does a fine job and it really pops in combination with the sugar maple.

[PJ Doland]

With a few exceptions, above a thousand you are buying "not third-world labor costs."

[Roger Wheeler]

I have a lefty Mowry 2 pt that I recently traded my Collings MT for and I actually can't believe its mine. The fit and finish are phenomenal and the "2 pt" is a nice upgrade from the "A" style. It plays and sounds as good as it looks. www.mowrystrings.com

[jjboone101]

May want to talk to Paul Newson in Michigan too. He builds really nice, custom F and A models and as a friend of Nugget, you may get a bit of that good karma in your mando as well.

[terzinator]

Love these responses. I'll toss up some additional thoughts (without quoting each post because, really, who has time for that?)

A couple-three years ago (when I was still more guitar-focused) I wandered into the Podium in Mpls and looked over the inventory on the wall. I've been a customer of theirs for a while, and the owner knows what I like. He pointed at an OM-18 by Jim Merrill, and said, "hey, check this one out. Just came in. I think you'll like it."

Now, I have a Martin 000-18GE that I think is one of the finest guitars I've ever played. Light, woody, resonant, airy, open, rich, blah, blah, blah. I don't see me ever getting rid of it. So, when I see another guitar similarly spec'd/appointed, I always compare it to mine, which I bought used for $2000. The Merrill appealed to me in the same way. The most basic Martin 18-style appointments. No pearl. No herringbone. Just give me the tone, brother.

When I saw the $4400 price on this Merrill, I smirked, and said, "really? Worth two of mine?" So I sat down with it, expecting it to sound good, but to be thankful I had my 000-18GE to go home to. But after one strum I knew that this guitar was in a completely different league. It was like opening a bottle of 1982 Chateau Margaux after drinking what I thought were some really, really nice wines.

It was other-worldly. It was electric, and alive, and it scared me a little bit. I fingerpicked all the stuff I usually do, and I sounded like a freaking master. I didn't sound like John Hurt or Gary Davis (even though I was playing their tunes), because those guys have a particular sound they didn't get from $4400 guitars, but it sounded so good and felt so right it gave me chills and made my hair stand up.

Needless to say (if you see my sig line), I didn't buy that Merrill. But I think about it quite often. Like now.

Anyway, that's what I'm looking for in a $5000 A-style. I don't need pearl. I don't need scroll. I want to put any and all available dollars into what's under the hood. I want to feel that tone and I want to get chills and I want my hair to stand up again.

[Martin Stevens]

Aside from a Gilchrist, Dudenbostel, or Monteleone; what A-style couldn't you get for $5K or less?

Probably a Nugget... might be a few others too.

[sgarrity]

Add Heiden to that list

[fatt-dad]

I think a Smart would be over $5K.

f-d

[PJ Doland]

According to their respective websites, Heiden's A-style is $7k and Smart's A-style is $5k.

[mandolirius]

Love these responses. I'll toss up some additional thoughts (without quoting each post because, really, who has time for that?)

A couple-three years ago (when I was still more guitar-focused) I wandered into the Podium in Mpls and looked over the inventory on the wall. I've been a customer of theirs for a while, and the owner knows what I like. He pointed at an OM-18 by Jim Merrill, and said, "hey, check this one out. Just came in. I think you'll like it."

Now, I have a Martin 000-18GE that I think is one of the finest guitars I've ever played. Light, woody, resonant, airy, open, rich, blah, blah, blah. I don't see me ever getting rid of it. So, when I see another guitar similarly spec'd/appointed, I always compare it to mine, which I bought used for $2000. The Merrill appealed to me in the same way. The most basic Martin 18-style appointments. No pearl. No herringbone. Just give me the tone, brother.

When I saw the $4400 price on this Merrill, I smirked, and said, "really? Worth two of mine?" So I sat down with it, expecting it to sound good, but to be thankful I had my 000-18GE to go home to. But after one strum I knew that this guitar was in a completely different league. It was like opening a bottle of 1982 Chateau Margaux after drinking what I thought were some really, really nice wines.

It was other-worldly. It was electric, and alive, and it scared me a little bit. I fingerpicked all the stuff I usually do, and I sounded like a freaking master. I didn't sound like John Hurt or Gary Davis (even though I was playing their tunes), because those guys have a particular sound they didn't get from $4400 guitars, but it sounded so good and felt so right it gave me chills and made my hair stand up.

Needless to say (if you see my sig line), I didn't buy that Merrill. But I think about it quite often. Like now.

Anyway, that's what I'm looking for in a $5000 A-style. I don't need pearl. I don't need scroll. I want to put any and all available dollars into what's under the hood. I want to feel that tone and I want to get chills and I want my hair to stand up again.

I think you should look for a Givens A model. Should be available for under 4K and I've never heard a bad one. A plainer, simpler mandolin you'll rarely find. But the sound...oh yeah!

[pefjr]

It was other-worldly. It was electric, and alive, and it scared me a little bit. I fingerpicked all the stuff I usually do, and I sounded like a freaking master. I didn't sound like John Hurt or Gary Davis (even though I was playing their tunes), because those guys have a particular sound they didn't get from $4400 guitars, but it sounded so good and felt so right it gave me chills and made my hair stand up.

Needless to say (if you see my sig line), I didn't buy that Merrill. But I think about it quite often. Like now.

Anyway, that's what I'm looking for in a $5000 A-style. I don't need pearl. I don't need scroll. I want to put any and all available dollars into what's under the hood. I want to feel that tone and I want to get chills and I want my hair to stand up again.

I have a Dauphin Classical that sounds like that. Japanese 70's Cedar and BR. I don't play guitar much anymore but not long ago I played a new handmade spruce and walnut guitar that had the sound. I say new, it was really only newly built, and from a hundred yr old upright piano. He made the top from the old soundboard , and the back and sides from the cabinet. Unparalleled beauty and sound.

[dcoventry]

Love these responses. I'll toss up some additional thoughts (without quoting each post because, really, who has time for that?)

A couple-three years ago (when I was still more guitar-focused) I wandered into the Podium in Mpls and looked over the inventory on the wall. I've been a customer of theirs for a while, and the owner knows what I like. He pointed at an OM-18 by Jim Merrill, and said, "hey, check this one out. Just came in. I think you'll like it."

Now, I have a Martin 000-18GE that I think is one of the finest guitars I've ever played. Light, woody, resonant, airy, open, rich, blah, blah, blah. I don't see me ever getting rid of it. So, when I see another guitar similarly spec'd/appointed, I always compare it to mine, which I bought used for $2000. The Merrill appealed to me in the same way. The most basic Martin 18-style appointments. No pearl. No herringbone. Just give me the tone, brother.

When I saw the $4400 price on this Merrill, I smirked, and said, "really? Worth two of mine?" So I sat down with it, expecting it to sound good, but to be thankful I had my 000-18GE to go home to. But after one strum I knew that this guitar was in a completely different league. It was like opening a bottle of 1982 Chateau Margaux after drinking what I thought were some really, really nice wines.

It was other-worldly. It was electric, and alive, and it scared me a little bit. I fingerpicked all the stuff I usually do, and I sounded like a freaking master. I didn't sound like John Hurt or Gary Davis (even though I was playing their tunes), because those guys have a particular sound they didn't get from $4400 guitars, but it sounded so good and felt so right it gave me chills and made my hair stand up.

Needless to say (if you see my sig line), I didn't buy that Merrill. But I think about it quite often. Like now.

Anyway, that's what I'm looking for in a $5000 A-style. I don't need pearl. I don't need scroll. I want to put any and all available dollars into what's under the hood. I want to feel that tone and I want to get chills and I want my hair to stand up again.

I think many of us have had the "electric jolt" moment with instruments that become special to us....

[johnsoba]

I just played about 60 good ones in Charlottesville, KNoxville, and Nashville a week and a half ago. Take a look at my reviews here:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-Summit-Artist

[terzinator]

Just spotted this on the Collings site. Pretty much everything on my wishlist. Ebony Waverlys, Varnish finish, that tasty orange burst. And a tortoise-bound neck, interestingly enough. (Which I'd prefer over the ivoroid.) It's a custom, so it's sold, but that is drop-dead, in my opinion. Add the wide-nut option, and it's perfect.





http://www.collingsguitars.com/galle...how.php?ID=197

[Justus True Waldron]

Collings makes some nice mandolins... the #1 reason why I wouldn't get one is admittedly a stupid one: Everyone else has one. Especially all the up-and-comer kids these days! They look great and usually sound great... for me a little modern sounding though and IMHO being machine built they lack that little extra bit of amazing that comes from a totally hand built instrument. Still, they are effectively perfect and I don't think anyone could go wrong with one.

[terzinator]

Collings makes some nice mandolins... the #1 reason why I wouldn't get one is admittedly a stupid one: Everyone else has one. Especially all the up-and-comer kids these days!

Yeah, I hear ya, but I don't worry too much about that. Like I said, if the tone is there, I don't much care who made it.

"That's the best Collings I ever heard!" they might say.

But are they machine built? I would think they're carved by hand, no? Even Kemnitzer, Gilchrist and Dudenbostel use power tools! (Well, I assume they do!)

[Justus True Waldron]

My understanding was Collings were CNC made, at least for the graduations... but I really don't know that much about the company so I'm willing to be proved wrong there. I'm not anti-power tools - certainly most big name builders use them, and for certain things they make sense! However, in my mind hand graduation with a gouge is better than a CNC macine because it allows the craftsman who understands what is going on in that particular piece of wood to adjust specifically for it, rather than sticking 100% to a computer model. I bet I could find a bunch of people who will be willing to disagree with me there... but that's just my opinion. I also think the very minute imperfections that come from hand made things (I'm talking master craftsman stuff here, not sloppy mistakes) is really what adds quality and character to art. You could program a computer to exactly copy Van Gogh's Starry Night, or to paint a picture of it's own in that style. But my thinking is that in the process it would sterilise the human element that makes something truly special.

Not trying to knock Collings mandolins here (which might still be hand carved, I don't know!)... they are amazing instruments and a great value in my opinion... I almost bought one! But I still think in terms of ultimate quality, feel and value they will never quite reach a maker-made instrument like a Dude or Monteleon... and I doubt they will ever be worth as much down the road! Again, just MHO... commence disagreement below!

And again, I'm a firm believer that whatever instrument feels and sounds right to you is the one you should have, no matter how or from what it was built...

[terzinator]

I think you might be right about the CNC machine doing much of the carving at Collings, but I'd think it would be finished by hand. But I don't know much about much.

[pjlama]

Even the CNC plates need to be worked by hand. The better the programing the less work but hands touch them all to get the final product. Duplicarver vs. CNC is still a power tool working the plates. Many guys claim that the CNC helps save time so they can focus on turning out a better finished product. Each maker uses different methods but you can't judge a mandolin or maker on the process, you have to feel and listen for yourself.

[terzinator]

Each maker uses different methods but you can't judge a mandolin or maker on the process, you have to feel and listen for yourself.

Really good point. I saw a thread somewhere about this... Ask professional players to guess which is the hand-carved and which is the CNC-carved mandolin. Pretty much impossible to do. The proof is in the finished product.

Why can't I help myself from continually scrolling up and looking at that orange Collings? Sick, i tell ya.

[pjlama]

I think if you keep the MT you should go with Stanley or Kimble, just my opinion and you know what they say about those...

[pjlama]

PS if you go Collings and special order a new one talk to Dennis and Brian at The Mandolin Store. I always go to them first when buying new on the brands they have. I had an issue on a new mandolin and Dennis didn't blink, he just replaced it. He always does everything possible to take care of me. Those guys go the extra mile every time. I've bought every new Collings from them including my current one.

[Grandude]

The best advice I've seen on this post is to play as many as you can. If you truly put sound over pretty, then you have to listen to the sound first. I lucked out. Sim Daley built mine per my specs, and nailed the sound. On the other hand, he has a reputation for "sounding" the instrument per customer desires. Mine happens to be an F-5, but I don't think an A-5 necessarily sounds any different than an F-5 because the scroll is solid wood blocking. So, spending your money on what's under the hood is a good move.

My Daley was the first black face varnish that he built, with speed neck, 1 1/4" nut, Adirondack red spruce top, James tailpiece, tortoise binding (actually 5-ply front, back, sides, headstock)...pictured on his website under "Classic", which is what I ordered. Over the course of the build time, I came up with the extra money needed for a "Vintage", which has the varnish finish - so mine is actually a Vintage series Daley. And, it's a banjo killer. It plays like butter. Sounds great when played soft, but the harder you dig into it, the more responsive it is. Very flexible to whatever touch you have.

My closest friend has been through too many mandolins to count, looking for Ms. Right. The last were: Red Diamond, Gibson Fern, Apitius, and now Gibson Sam Bush (with the 1 3/16" neck). He just called me from Nashville exclaiming that he traded his Apitius for the Bush at Gruhn's. He said, "It sounds just like your Daley!" He and I have played so many Bush models through the years, and they all sound different, so he found the needle in the haystack.

I would consider most of the makers listed in this post as potentially the right one for you. I found my holy grail, and you can too. But, don't let the cover of the book fool you. Your best bet would be to plan on playing it first. I like the road trip idea - go to Nashville with a plan to visit the key retailers and luthiers. And, have a great time while you're there.

[nobullmando74]

My scroll on my Campanella isn't a solid block. Depends on the builder.

[doc holiday]

Terzinator, you're definitely in the ballpark with 5K. You'll come out on top & there are so many not merely good, but great choices. I'm partial to the Ellis A. Mine is terrific and stands shoulder to shoulder with my Heiden F. The Stanley's are great.
I've got friends that have an F and an A. They are wonderful trad. voiced mandolins. As far as 2 points...there was a certain 2pt Kimble at Greg Boyd's a few years back that was the best sounding mandolin in the house at the time. My advice....spend the 5k....above 1k they are not all like- sounding & just pretty.