Octave Mandolin Project from Eastman Mandolins

[kidgloves2]

I'm not really a fan of the new "pompadour" headstock design, but if you must echo it in the fretboard end, put the bulge on the treble side.

Yea, the fretboard extension must be on the treble side.

[Graham McDonald]

I would put another vote in for adapting the El Ray body shape with 2.5-3" deep sides and using it for a 22" OM. A 22" scale means fairly readily available 12-46 gauge strings and less of a mandola sound to it. It wouldn't be hard then to use a longer (guitar scale) neck for a bouzouki and you would cover both those markets.

cheers

graham
(who has been building these things for 30 years)

[luthierseye]

I like the revised design much better except for one item: I liked the shape/curvature of the extended fingerboard,but not the long extended finger; so I suggest that you revert to the basic original but shorten the finger to where it is a little shy of the rosette-just a thought. Scale length: I play a 20" and would probably like a 21" a bit better for several reasons-string gauge being one- but no longer than 21" as the reaches get tougher for melodies. One thought is that the 21" would be kinda unique being not too short and not too long either and just might create a desirable niche. Color: I would vote for either a natural top or a "honey" top like my Weber Gallatin Mandola in a satin finish with the back and sides any dark color but black. And your classic Eastman finish is acceptable as well. I like the carved top & back with the oval hole. Thanks for asking players opinions- we always have one.. or two; and an idea may come up that you had not thought of.

[Jeff Budz]

I think you are right on track with the design, my preferences are for 21.5" scale, natural or pumpkin finish, radius fingerboard, guitar frets, no Celtic ornamentation. I have owned 20" and 23" scale OMs, I think something in-between would fit me best. I'm so tired of sunburst, I sanded my MD515 natural and now it's sweet. Black would be cool too, but orange would be best IMO..

Thanks for asking opinions!

[PFCG]

I think you are right on track with the design, my preferences are for 21.5" scale, natural or pumpkin finish, radius fingerboard, guitar frets, no Celtic ornamentation. I have owned 20" and 23" scale OMs, I think something in-between would fit me best. I'm so tired of sunburst, I sanded my MD515 natural and now it's sweet. Black would be cool too, but orange would be best IMO..

Thanks for asking opinions!

I would like to see that! Post some pictures of that 515!

I have edited the drawing a bit to include a 21 inch scale, but the bridge moves off of the center point of the body in order to accomplish the right balance and have the 15th fret meet the binding channel.

[Gerry Cassidy]

I have posted this thought I've had a couple of times over the past couple of years:

This is a pic of an Eastman El Rey guitar I owned a couple years ago:



It was very neck heavy and the dive was too much for me to deal with so I sold it, but I have always thought it would be a great template for an OM, or 'Zouk.

If you were to put the neck from your drawing on this body, I'd think you'd have a pretty nice OM.

As for scale length, I currently own a 20" flat top which has all the jangle and percussive tone you could ever want for tone purposes. It's just isn't very loud.

I also have a 21" carved top & back that is a tone monster. It is my number 1 player. Anything beyond 22" you start forcing a Zouk situation, i.e. Melody lines become increasingly difficult to play. I have a 24" GOM that I can, pretty much, only play doubles and chord comp.

[Galimando]

I have edited the drawing a bit to include a 21 inch scale, but the bridge moves off of the center point of the body in order to accomplish the right balance and have the 15th fret meet the binding channel.

Thanks PFCG! How would moving the bridge of center point to the body affect tone, do you think? Is that shift a significant thing?

[Luthier]

Well lots of great thoughts. I do not want to step on toes but I have been asked recently to come up with a mandocello, or mandolla kit. Sheesh. Anyway, Pat, if you need to brainstorm or bounce any ideas back and forth, I would be happy to help.
My Octave kits have a 22.875" scale. I too am on the "feedback" quest.
Don

[Charlieshafer]

Well, it looks like there are at least 27,421 folks that replied to this thread that want an El Rey styled OM. OK, maybe it's three, but that's enough. How about it, Eastman??

[Charles E.]

The soundhole looks really big to me, too. I would like it in the Golden Age (Eastman's version of Pumpkin top) with the classic stained back. I like the 20 inch scale. Keep the price under $2k and I think you have a keeper!

Jamie

PS Welcome! We've been wanting an Eastman OM for.... years.

That sound hole is too large, you might have problems with the neck. I also vote to not have the fingerboard extension.

[Jared Heddinger]

I'd just like to thank you form asking the communitie's opinion on this. It's really amazing seeing a big builder like Eastman asking for and taking advice from us. I'm really quite excited to see how this looks/sounds in the end. I've always been a fan of Eastman mandolins and I have no doubt this will follow the path no matter what decisions you make.

I'd just like to put my favor in for the longer scale length and perhaps something like the classic finish from your mandolin line. I feel it sets you apart from the rest of the makers while still having a certain amount of class (no pun intended).

Are there any future plans for something of an A-style mandocello? Or maybe (one can dream), a five string CGDAE instrument?

[Pete Braccio]

There were also a couple of of ElRays made with f holes. I was lucky enough to get my hands on this one.



I would love a bouzouki (24.5 - 25.5) with this body shape but just a bit deeper.

Pete

[Tristram]

Great that your asking for feedback on a project like this. Time to muddy the waters, a little.

21" scale would be preferable.
The body shape is great, the soundhole as others have noted seems oversized - I love the neck though, and the headstock. The extension is a little ott.

Good to hear about the classic finish, also. Do we need another natural coloured, a style oval-hole octave mandolin?

This is where I may diverge strongly, I feel the 'celtic' market is saturated with options, leaving so very, very few for others that don't necessarily want to go custom. Eastman has a strong history of bold choices, especially with the David Grisman collaborations and even the mandola and mandocello. It would be very gratifying to see the octave mandolin continue in this tradition. What about an eliptical soundhole? Or even stylised f-holes, like on the DG1 but enlarged. That on an a-style body, carved top and back, would get my dollar.

A personal big turn off with all of the oval holes currently made by Eastman are the rossettes around the soundholes. I find them very gaudy and tastless. Hope that doesn't sound harsh.

Would love to see another unique instrument emerge from the Eastman line.

Yours sincerely,

A very proud owner of a black face DG1, a 905d 2-point and a 615 'dola.

[Galimando]

Hey, does anyone know if there's been any sort of follow through on this instrument?

[jim simpson]

I've messed with your image to reflect my sound hole choice.

[djweiss]

For what it's worth, I'd get behind the 22.75in scale El Rayo body...especially the "f" hole version. How about a 5 string option, too!

[Rob Sharer]

I do a fair few repairs for our local Eastman dealer, so let me tread lightly (but firmly!).

I really think 20" is too short for an octave mandolin. Having a low G pair at that scale necessitates the use of such heavy strings that a whole series of problems ensues.

Short, large strings require higher action to ensure adequate room to swing without excessive fret buzz. Trouble is, it's very easy to bend the fretted note out of tune on such a string, even more so when it's up high. Additionally, the large size and flabby tension of the strings means you need to space them apart at the nut and bridge so they won't knock into each other when struck. This can make the pair feel wide and awkward under the fingers, especially at the low tension they're tuned to - kind of "noodly" - as well as making picking feel odd. Mostly, though, a short G pair just doesn't speak well, and that's not good for the music that's trying to come out.

21" or thereabouts is significantly better for the G pair, while remaining eminently player-friendly for melody play in GDAE. As has been pointed out, 23" is the common scale for tenor banjos as used in Irish music (contrary to the text of innumerable ads I've seen for short-scale, open-back Vegas {"perfect for Celtic music!"}, almost every banjo player in Ireland uses a 19-fret tenor with a resonator). They get tuned to GDAE, and every tune in the considerable Irish canon is reachable at that scale.

I say, press on with this excellent idea, but use the 21" scale for your lovely little A-style. For the big-handed boyos who want to raise the rafters, though, the El Rey at 22.75 would be a real contender.

Good luck,

Rob

[PFCG]

Please view my other post if you would like to see the specs

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...2013-NAMM-show!

[Charlieshafer]

Pretty, but El Rey, too??

[Luthier]

It looks really nice, Pat.
Don

[Mandobar]

I am hoping the string spacing is better on these than the mandocello. I had to have my luthier make a new nut for mine. I was pretty unplayable as it was.

As for the 20 inch scale, Bob Abrahm's Trillium mandola can be strung as an OM and it is a 19" scale. You just need to use the right string gauges.

[Charlieshafer]

I am hoping the string spacing is better on these than the mandocello. I had to have my luthier make a new nut for mine. I was pretty unplayable as it was.

Yes, I remember wasting an insane amount of your luthier's time, both of hoping like heck you'd be late picking it up!

But I agree with Mary, the Eastman 'cello's I've played do show a weakness in the nut/bridge spacing. A little more attention to detail, and they'll be fantastic bargains. Right now, they're only excellent bargains.

My only hope is that Eastman doesn't pretend to listen, and then not actually listen. How many others called for an "El Rey" style OM, with no response by the Eastman designer here? Hopefully it's not like auto company surveys. 2431 questions asked, and my door still leaks on my pickup.

[Richard Moore]

As has been pointed out, 23" is the common scale for tenor banjos as used in Irish music (contrary to the text of innumerable ads I've seen for short-scale, open-back Vegas .... almost every banjo player in Ireland uses a 19-fret tenor with a resonator). They get tuned to GDAE, and every tune in the considerable Irish canon is reachable at that scale.

Slight thread creep here. I've seen this "authoritively" stated several times here and it simply isn't true. BTW, I'm Irish and I play the tenor banjo (and have always preferred and chosen shorter scale models and know plenty of others the same).

Getting back onto track, the latest design OM looks very nice to me.

[PFCG]

Yes, I remember wasting an insane amount of your luthier's time, both of hoping like heck you'd be late picking it up!

But I agree with Mary, the Eastman 'cello's I've played do show a weakness in the nut/bridge spacing. A little more attention to detail, and they'll be fantastic bargains. Right now, they're only excellent bargains.

My only hope is that Eastman doesn't pretend to listen, and then not actually listen. How many others called for an "El Rey" style OM, with no response by the Eastman designer here? Hopefully it's not like auto company surveys. 2431 questions asked, and my door still leaks on my pickup.

The El-Rey design is something invented by Otto D'Ambrosio, a very talented and creative luthier. We use his designs on a limited basis, and follow his designs. We are not supposed to alter the design without cooperation from Otto. If you were interested in getting an instrument commissioned from Otto, i am sure he would consider it!

We can only really do different colors/pickups/hardware on the El Reys. Turning it into another instrument would most likely be out of the picture. However, the only requests for an instrument such as this has been in this thread. When it comes to making production line instruments, we must always consider the general public; our largest market of buyers.

We do take into consideration a lot of dealer and end user feedback, which we believe to be very valuable in developing a new products. Your suggestions do not fall on deaf ears.

[Mandobar]

When was that, Charlie? It was there for a while. You should have said something. I'd have let you take it home for a bit.

Yes, I remember wasting an insane amount of your luthier's time, both of hoping like heck you'd be late picking it up!

But I agree with Mary, the Eastman 'cello's I've played do show a weakness in the nut/bridge spacing. A little more attention to detail, and they'll be fantastic bargains. Right now, they're only excellent bargains.

My only hope is that Eastman doesn't pretend to listen, and then not actually listen. How many others called for an "El Rey" style OM, with no response by the Eastman designer here? Hopefully it's not like auto company surveys. 2431 questions asked, and my door still leaks on my pickup.