Gibson sound

[Mike Bunting]

Great post, Trevor, and dead on.

[Jeff May]

Trevor,

You might recognize these descriptions.

"...Its got bucket loads of that magical vintage Gibson F4 tone,..."

"...It's in great shape and has the typical deep and bassy sound of a nineteen-teens Gibbo..."

"...Bags of that vintage Gibby oval hole sound, great for folk and old time not really the beast for the bluegrassers..."

"...Loads of that characteristic teens Gibson sound, big and fat basses and sweet mids and trebles..."

"...its got the typical Vintage Gibson woody bass..."

Of course not all Gibsons produced over more than a century sound the same. But I believe your argument in the two active threads on this topic amounts to hairsplitting over semantics. Old oval hole Gibsons apparently have a characteristic sound, as seen in the quotes above. Old Loars might not all sound exactly alike but based on what I've read on the Cafe and other places, they have a certain something in common. All of the Gibson F5 mandolins I've played (all built since 1978) have some common tonal characteristics. Some just have more than others.

As has been stated by others with more credibility than me, the typical discussion these days about the "Gibson sound" revolves around the bluegrass sound of the Gibson F5 mandolin. Do they all sound exactly the same? Of course not. Do most builders strive for that old vintage Gibson F5 sound? Not sure, but I believe at least some of them do. Do most mandolin players have some idea of what you're saying when you describe something as having some kind of "Gibson sound" of a particular type or era? The quotes above seem to say yes.

[trevor]

Hi Jeff,

If you dig around further I think you will also find examples where I have said such things as at the bassier end or brighter end of the range. Though I don't think I claimed there wasn't any commonality within types of Gibson. I certainly have a sound in my head that I think of as the typical snakehead sound.

I don't believe I am splitting hairs or being semantic I am just challenging those that talk about the Gibson sound as though it was some magic attached to all Gibsons be they Loar, snakehead, 70/80s etc., which is commonly claimed by some, and the commonly held idea that all Gibsons sound great.

"Do most mandolin players have some idea of what you're saying when you describe something as having some kind of "Gibson sound" of a particular type or era? The quotes above seem to say yes." The quotes above say the teens oval holes have a commonality of sound, nothing more.. which is one of my points, I don't see (hear) a Gibson sound common to all Gibsons.

[Jeff May]

...The quotes above say the teens oval holes have a commonality of sound, nothing more.. which is one of my points, I don't see (hear) a Gibson sound common to all Gibsons.

Also my point. When you say "the Gibson sound", in whatever context, bluegrass, teens oval holes, snakeheads, whatever, folks know what you're talking about. Hence my "hairsplitting" comment; you're taking it out of context and trying to apply it universally. As I said, it's obvious that not all of the Gibson mandolins ever made sound the same. That's kind of ridiculous.

Being as you accept the idea of a teens oval hole Gibson sound, perhaps you would accept the notion of a Gibson bluegrass sound? This is what I think is most frequently discussed. It more or less equates to the sound of a Gibson F5 as built in the 20s - 30s and as attempted since about 1978? Within the admittedly small circles I run in, this is the only Gibson sound that matters.

Oh, and I think everybody agrees that, overall, the early 70s period can be accepted as Gibsons that are uncharacteristic of what we're discussing here (although I've never played one...and now I'm getting dizzy)

[trevor]

"you're taking it out of context and trying to apply it universally." No, my point is that some do this..

[Jeff May]

"you're taking it out of context and trying to apply it universally." No, my point is that some do this..

So if I make a post on the Cafe, within the context of a conversation about bluegrass mandolins, and I say xxxx mandolin has "a Gibson sound", you're going to feel compelled to tell me there is no such thing as a Gibson sound. But if I say it has a "Gibson bluegrass sound", you're okay with that?

In my opinion, that's hairsplitting over semantics; taking it out of context, etc...

[trevor]

This is getting out of hand I don't know who is being semantic. You're welcome to your opinion. I also think the 'bluegrass sound/Gibson sound' can be found in many mandolins which I think you acknowledge above. The point is, at the risk of repetition, all Gibson's don't have this sound and all Gibsons don't sound great. I think you agree with that so I don't know why we are going round in circles. Its late here so I'm signing off.

[woodwizard]

When I hear a recording of say an old-time band or someone like for instance Norman Blake I'm always listening for the mandolin because like everyone here I love the mandolin. And when I hear the unmistakbly oval hole sound or tone of the mandolin it's hard for me to think that this is not a "Gibson sound". It is to me. Maybe not all Gibson's sound the same but the Gibson sound is what most great builders were trying to achieve for many many years IMHO

[hank]

me too.

[G7MOF]

My mandolin sounds just like a mandolin, even though it is a Gibson!!!

[trevor]

Well that's good.

[Fretbear]

"Alot of those Gibson mandolins had lousy second frets, I have had frets moved on a bunch of old Gibsons and the one's from the Loar period were the worst of all ....."

Norman Blake

[trevor]

That's interesting. I had a guy in from the staff at the London Royal College of Music. He said the intonation all the way up on a teens oval hole I had at the time was the best he had ever heard. It just shows how much they vary.

[Fretbear]

No they are all the same......
Maybe it used to be owned by Blake......

[Bernie Daniel]

...Of course not all Gibsons produced over more than a century sound the same...[but]... Old oval hole Gibsons apparently have a characteristic sound, as seen in the quotes above. Old Loars might not all sound exactly alike but based on what I've read on the Cafe and other places, they have a certain something in common. All of the Gibson F5 mandolins I've played (all built since 1978) have some common tonal characteristics. Some just have more than others...the "Gibson sound" revolves around the bluegrass sound of the Gibson F5 mandolin. Do they all sound exactly the same? Of course not. Do most builders strive for that old vintage Gibson F5 sound? Not sure, but I believe at least some of them do. Do most mandolin players have some idea of what you're saying when you describe something as having some kind of "Gibson sound" of a particular type or era? The quotes above seem to say yes.

I agree Jeff. I own or have owned 5 post 2000 f-hole Gibson mandolins -- 4 F-models and one A model. All five have been excellent and they were very similar sounding.

In addition, like most here I have played many other recently made Gibson F-models - in stores or workshops or what ever. I've never really encountered a bad one and they sound similar to me.

In contrast I have also played a number of Collings and Weber f-model mandolins and to my ear both brands have their own distinct sound that is simply different (not better or worse) than the Gibson sound. Especially Collings is distinct. To my ear Weber is between the other two brands and can overlap in sound with either (IMO).

So within limits yes clearly there IS a Gibson sound. But by the same token, a 1920 F-4 will not sound like a 2001 F-5 Fern and generally a 1970 F-5 will be different as well. So clearly there is not ONE Gibson sound -- so to extend the concept that broadly is silly (IMO).

I wonder how many more times this topic will be discussed on this forum? What is this the 10th time or is it 11th