Jamming Questions

**PhillipeTaylor** · Jun-06-2012, 12:28pm

I'm a beginner with previous experience with wind instruments, brass, and fell in love with Mandolin and am really into it.

I have a lot of friends with guitars, and they all want to jam with me, so I'm doing the best I can. I'm practicing chord progressions, of course I IV V like crazy and the rest of the chords in the keys, and trying to develop a variety of choices inside the I, IV, V especially, and training the ears for chords is just as tricky (for me) as training the fingers, at least if feels right now.

But I get the sense that mandolin can have a different relationship with guitar while jamming than just copying what the guitars are doing, and wonder if I should be bringing such an idea to my practice with the chord progressions so I can make the experience more fun for my friends... any tips/tricks would be appreciated.

Thanks!

p

**billhay4** · Jun-06-2012, 12:36pm

For rhythm purposes, the mandolin often plays on the off beat instead of the 1 and 3 beats (in 4/4 time) while the guitar plays on the on beats. This is particularly true in bluegrass and old time music. If there is no bass present, this can be very important for the group in maintaining timing, etc.
Bill

**Perry** · Jun-06-2012, 1:00pm

Originally Posted by PhillipeTaylor

But I get the sense that mandolin can have a different relationship with guitar while jamming than just copying what the guitars are doing, and wonder if I should be bringing such an idea to my practice with the chord progressions so I can make the experience more fun for my friends... any tips/tricks would be appreciated.

Thanks!

p

You did not mention what style of music you and your friends play. One of the great things about the mandolin guitar relationship is that you almost can't step on each other even if you tried too. So if you both strummed along on a G chord together it could sound great even though you are doing essentially the same thing.

After strumming there are endless ways your mandolin can accompany guitar.

Also keep in mind that a mandolin can be a fantastic percussive instrument. Think of a drum set that can play chords. Check out Sam Bush's Rhythm DVD for some cool stuff.

Here's a taste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzLpu0z1wPc

**PhillipeTaylor** · Jun-06-2012, 1:06pm

Excellent! Thanks to both of you for the help!

One friend is a Classic Rock guy, the other a Blues/Jazz guy, another classical (we are working on learning a piece together), and my Dad is a Jazz/Blues guy... so, in addition, I'm praticing the blues scales. Fun stuff, all of it, just a bit overwhelmed. Thanks again!

**SGraham** · Jun-07-2012, 7:49pm

Hi Phillipe and welcome to the Cafe. Have you taken a look at www.jazzmando.com? It's well worth it.

**Jon Hall** · Jun-08-2012, 6:49am

If you haven't already done so, begin developing your tremolo. You wouldn't want to use it exclusively but it defines the mandolin in my opinion. That said, developing your tremolo will be a life long endeavor. There are plenty of strings in this forum that will help you.

**stevehorn** · Jun-08-2012, 10:05am

Great suggestions from everyone. I'd add some thoughts.

When it comes to accompaniment or adding your sound to the mix, you can assume that you, the mandolinist, are icing on their cake. You can add creatively what you want while the responsibility for the success of the sound rests heavily on the guitar or bass. So enjoy that freedom and use it creatively and let your personal style, however rudimentary it may seem, flourish.

When soloing, mandolin requires you to use your pinky more than does the guitar. Pinky gets tired when he hasn't had time yet to develop his strength, so be patient and be consistent in practicing and growing in strength. Also be aware that blues licks as we're used to hearing them fit soooo easily on guitar. Take for instance the them for "Layla". It's a breeze for a newbie guitarist while on mandolin it's a booger to get under your fingers until your muscle memory picks it up...but it will come.

In short, you will do well to find what works for your own idiosyncracies...accept those and build on that. Soon, you'll be the ace in their pocket.

**PhillipeTaylor** · Jun-08-2012, 10:13am

Hi again all!

Thanks for the Jazz Mando resource! I have been working on tremolo, and it's HARD. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. The picks I use that seem good for tremolo don't seem good for anything else, at least where I am. But I'll definatley keep working with it!

Ok, working out that pinky! My index finger first joint seems to be the real sticky part right now for the 'A' and 'B' chord so far. I overworked it and it hurt so bad that I had to lay off these chords for a few days. It just wont get strong fast enough! I want to get those nice full 'A' and 'B' chords, the two finger 'A' and 'B' just sounds dissonant, but my index finger joint just isn't on the same page as me!!! (punk a** finger!).

**Philphool** · Jun-08-2012, 4:31pm

Although you want to get those fingers to do what you tell them to do, also remember that there are many ways to form the same chords.

e.g. if the A: 2200 doesn't feel or sound good, maybe try 6700 or 6740 or some others. Similar for other chords.
You could even use 896x for the B.

Best wishes.

**Adam Sweet** · Jun-08-2012, 4:55pm

Get used to the 1,2,3,4 finger pattern more easily by practicing scales. Do a different set around the circle of fifths each day starting at the top with C,G,D,A,E,B,F#, etc

Arpeggios are also helpful, especially if you're going to be playing a lot of bluegrass

MAJ: 1,3,5,1
MAJ7: 1,3,5,7,1
7: 1,3,5,f7,1

And relative minors!

Do 2 octaves, use your 4th finger and do it every day.

**Markus** · Jun-08-2012, 8:54pm

For rock stuff, the 2245 A can be quite handy. D 2455 and E 4224 or 4677. Move it all over, add extensions.

As Phil suggests, check out all the options. The mandolin fretboard makes cycling through chords easy, after a point.

**PhillipeTaylor** · Jun-09-2012, 12:42am

Wow!

Okay, this is good stuff! I'm going to go at those right away!

I have to confess, I broke down and bought a used Breedlove, and it's a LOT friendlier to the fingers.

I feel like one of "those" beginners that goes out and buys a kick-butt instrument first... but to be honest, I bought a cheapy $200.00 pack at first and traded it in after all the fret buzz was driving me crazy for a Michael Kelley, and so on. So here I am with a used Breedlove OF crystal, probably too much mandolin for me, but I don't care, I can practice hitting that 2245 'A' without the index finger joint getting sore after only a few minutes, and the chords sound SO nice. More money than the Michael Kelley basic model I had ($750), but it's worth it. Makes it MUCH more fun to practice and that 2245 'A' is only a day or so away now!!!

**Markus** · Jun-09-2012, 4:07am

Having an instrument that is a joy to play improves a lot of things. When its hard to get the mandolin out of your hands, you will get a lot better.

**lenf12** · Jun-09-2012, 9:39am

I'm amazed and more than a bit jealous that you have a lot of guitar playing friends that want to jam with you on mandolin. When I was coming up on mandolin, I couldn't find any guitar players that wanted to jam. Times have changed for sure but please do take advantage of any opportunities to play with others. It will put you on the steep side of the learning curve and you'll end up a better mandolinist as a result. Have fun!!

Len B. (finally hitting post #800 phew!! Took a while to get here)
Clearwater, FL

**PhillipeTaylor** · Jun-09-2012, 11:06am

I'm amazed at that too! That's why I'm desperate to get good enough to make it as fun as possible for them... so they stick around. Maybe when my buddy and I get our classical piece ready I'll post it here.

It is hard to put it down.... very hard....