anchoring your right hand

[sacausey]

Hey,

I'm a guitar player that just started trying his hand at mandolin.

How do you guys anchor your hand for picking? I'm tempted to just rest it behind the bridge, but I don't what to pull the strings out of tune, and this early on, I want to avoid as many bad habits as I can.

Then I kind of started anchoring my pinky on the pick guard, but that feels kind of goofy too, and again, I want to avoid as many bad habits as possible.

So where do you put your right hand when you're playing?

[Tim2723]

Hi, and welcome!

It's a big topic, widely debated, and seems to have no absolute right or wrong answer. It's also not something that can be effectively solved by a poll question. It's more about what works or doesn't in a particular instance.

For myself (and only myself), I never touch down my right hand when chording. When playing melody, I rest my right wrist very lightly behind the bridge. I don't find it too detrimental to tone nor does it take the instrument out of tune for me, and my personal results are better than when I try to pick with my hand in mid air. I've never gotten enough control that way, although other, more dedicated players have learned to do so with great success.

More importantly, I'd like to congratulate you on one thing: Most cross-over guitarists don't even bother to think of the mandolin as a different instrument, they just treat it like a little guitar and try to transfer guitar technique blindly to the mandolin. Good on you!

Like the guitar, there are classical and contemporary techniques for the mandolin, and others will soon point you to those. Welcome again!

[msh_mando]

This video helped me a lot and demonstrates what many consider to be good technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YzFQJosVGM

However, when you look around and all the great pickers, there are plenty of exceptions...

[Tim2723]

..However, when you look around and all the great pickers, there are plenty of exceptions...

Even among poor pickers this is a great truth! Much will depend on your individual style and choice of music. For instance, a dedicated Bluegrass player may do something very different than someone like myself, an Irish folk player.

[Fred Keller]

As others have said, there is no one way. I come at it from a slightly different angle: Anything that limits movement or tone should be avoided. Resting or anchoring your hand on your bridge potentially detracts from the sound as the bridge channels the vibration into the wood. Anchoring a pinky on the top or the pickguard--anywhere--inhibits free movement.

I disagree with Roland in that he says you can't hit individual notes without anchoring. You certainly can. MOST people have the MOST success by resting the arm where he says--just above the pickguard--and then having the hand float close to the bridge without touching it.

I repeat what's been said: there is no one way. But I'm a strong advocate of doing everything in your power to achieve maximum freedom of movement. Have fun!

[Adam Sweet]

The mandolin video from a post above is pretty good. I do something similar. Rest it behind the bridge, gently, but don't push down.

[AlanN]

Doyle Lawson says something similar: Gently rest the RH heel behind the saddle, no pressure there, at all. A stronger, cleaner, more deft picker you won't find.

[SincereCorgi]

It might be hard if you're just getting started to play using the 'best' posture. You might consider not firmly planting but just extending your finger and brushing the top. This way, you can start to internalize the distance between your hand from the top but still having some mobility. Gradually, you will be able to just tuck your finger in.

[Jimdalf]

Anchoring makes accuracy easier because it restricts movement, but I would not think "let's adopt this technique because it restricts movement." So I'd suggest not anchoring the hand because it makes more sense to me to have my whole arm relaxed and controlled, rather than restricted. Though as above posters have said, there are many great players who do otherwise, pick your guru!

[Ken_P]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced (for myself, anyway), that freehand is the right approach. It requires a lot of discipline and a lot of practice to get it right, but I've recently begun to get the hang of it a little bit, and the results, when it's right, are well worth it. First, it's allowed me to loosen my pick grip quite a bit. Not sure exactly why those two go together, but that's been my experience. I didn't even realize I could be holding the pick looser, but all of a sudden I was and it instantly allowed me to play faster and with much greater fluidity. Accuracy is, of course the big problem with trying to make the jump, but I believe that if you can get through the initial confusion of not having a point of reference, it will actually be improved in the long run. With nothing at all to restrict your movement, you can put you hand and wrist exactly where they need to be to get the optimal attack for each note.

For a beginner, I would suggest keeping your wrist very lightly touching the strings behind the bridge, as recommend by most players. Even there, though, I would emphasize that you should be touching as lightly as you possibly can. Just barely brushing, if you can manage it. The range of motion it allows over being more firmly planted is well worth it.

[terzinator]

When I sold my first Collings MT, I had to price it so low because of the damage I did to the top from anchoring my ring finger and/or pinkie. With my current MT, I made a conscious choice to not anchor/post simply to save wear on the instrument, and it's helped my technique, speed and tone immensely.

On those happy occasions that I happen to realize I'm playing better/faster/cleaner, I'm aware that my right hand is really free and floating, and if there's contact, it's a very light brushing of the strings behind the bridge.

[Ken_P]

One additional thing - I would highly recommend an armrest. Not only does it prevent your arm from laying across the top (sapping tone), but by raising your arm up slightly, it improves the position of you wrist relative to the strings.

[Tim2723]

I for one (and this is a highly controversial topic) don't find any significant difference with lightly placing a finger on the soundboard any more than I find an issue with placing a pickup on it. Others do, but I don't. Nor do I find any real difference in placing the hand between the bridge and tailpiece, as long as it's light enough to not interfere with tuning. For myself and my ear, resting a finger lightly on the soundboard has no affect at all. I've often thought that any difference is likely imaginary at best.

[kkmm]

I used to put my pinky on the soundboard, not anchor it, it could move freely. Then I spent about 3 to 4 months to get away from this habit, I do find my right hand having more freedom without the pinky on the sound board.
After many months of practice the "right" way, from a video posted in this forum, my wrist becomes stronger and I could play chords with my right hand floating above the strings, playing melody with my right hand laying slightly on the strings behind the bridge. There is a definite improvement in the sound quality and volume with this new right hand technique.
The OP did a very good thing by asking. I am also a guitarist and assumed I can just bring guitar technique to mandolin: I admit I was WRONG.

[Cheryl Watson]

There are so many differing opinions on this. I don't plant but I use my pinkie as a gauge when picking--when strumming and playing doublestops, my hand is free. Don't actually rest the weight of your hand on the bridge; it will reduce tone--barely touching it is OK, when you are playing in that region of the neck, but you want to be able to play up and down the neck to get different textures and tones so you want your picking hand and arm to be able to move and not plant or press too hard because it locks you in. You also want to be able to move easily between playing notes, doublestops and different rhythms and that was the thing that gave me the most challenge. I used to switch my pick grip to play lead from rhythm and back again which created flow problems and a bad habit, so I found one pick grip that worked the best for all.

Some guitar picking skills can be transferred to mandolin, but for me, using the pick on mandolin is more of a brushing technique than on guitar and nowhere is that more evident then when you play doublestops.

Bottom line, you want to do what works for you, but there ARE some bad habits to avoid. Mainly, stay relaxed and avoid a harsh, sharp attack. The pick should be, as with guitar, moving back and forth as if it were rubber in your fingers. I use a straight on attack to get more pick on the string for a fatter tone; the slight angle technique never worked for me. Working on your pickstrokes on only one string is a good way to start and then start moving between two strings, then three, and then across all four. There are a lot of very good exercises to be found on Mandolin Cafe, on You Tube, and Mandozine. Fluidity it the key as with playing any instrument--play slow and relaxed; gradually speed up and record your progress for feedback. Well, that is my 2¢

[Rick Jones]

Another 2 cents from me. I have had best luck with nothing at all touching the bridge, but picking with an almost completely free-floating picking hand. I say 'almost' because the backs of the last couple fingers of my right hand, which are curled into a very lose fist, tend to brush the pickguard very lightly, providing some positioning/depth guidance. If there is no pickguard, the ring and pinkie fingertips tend to lightly touch the 1st string(s), providing the same positioning guidance, except when I am actually picking those strings. I think this habit came from long-time study of Gypsy Jazz guitar, where anchoring your picking hand in any way whatsoever pretty much knocks you out of the game. On the guitar, the backs of these fingers brush lightly across the strings; on the mandolin, they touch the pickguard - but I do mean 'touch', as in very, very lightly. So my picking hand is free, but has a gentle guide that helps in keeping the pick attack controlled and consistent. I personally cannot imagine having my wrist against anything - but that's just me.

[Duff]

I would agree with Ken_P nicely put too . I've not had the chance to try an armrest though.

[greg_tsam]

I think there is a certain way or general rule of what a player should try to achieve when learning an instrument but, inevitably, the individual develops their own style and if it works, it works, even if it goes against the current dogma.

[Philphool]

One additional thing - I would highly recommend an armrest. Not only does it prevent your arm from laying across the top (sapping tone), but by raising your arm up slightly, it improves the position of you wrist relative to the strings.

I agree with Ken, but more to the point of this discussion, I find that my forearm touching the armrest BECOMES my anchor point. By consistently having the same part of the forearm in contact with the arm rest, my right hand seems to know where the strings are located even without the heel of my right hand resting near the bridge. For very precise work, I'll admit that the heel of the hand may rest lightly on the strings behind the bridge for a short time, but not most of the time.

[catmandu2]

I might mention here my experience on tenor banjo (I also employ largely the same technique on mandolin) -- I follow the technique taught by Buddy Wachter--who teaches a "fingers down" approach for single line (and tremolo) playing. On tenor banjo, tremolo technique is used extensively--particularly for "duo" style where there is extensive use of demanding techniqe, "two-part" and other when precise picking is crucial. It's a style I enjoy, and for me Wachter's approach works well for TB

Actually, now when I actually think, I realize I only do "fingers down" in a truncated or less pronounced manner on mandolin--only the degree that I "need" to do to execute what I'm playing in my style, etc.

[Fred Keller]

You owe it to yourself to check out Bill Monroe's right hand. I'd say for a strong case of the floating right hand you can't do better. He had it going on...for speed, rhythm, drive, economy, taste, ease...all of it. Here's one where you can really watch his right hand technique:

About 1:10 in...



And another...

[Mike Bunting]

Or Mike Compton's right hand

[Pete Summers]

I agree with everything that has been said here, except for some of it.

Certainly, this is a controversial subject and there are many excellent players who approach it from entirely different angles.

However, I think it might be useful to note that your hand position may be affected by the style of instrument you are playing. Not all mandolins are the same, after all. Bowl backs, flat tops and such may require a different approach than the typical A or F style mandolin

One of the reasons I dislike mandolins with elevated fingerboards is that they cause me to have to rest my hand (lightly, as everyone points out) on the adjustable bridge or the strings behind the bridge, which I find uncomfortable. They also usually require an armrest, which I also find uncomfortable. For those reasons (and several others), I prefer flat top mandolins without elevated fingerboards such as the Big Muddy models, the pancake styles, and the many older style flat tops.

I usually play a pancake model mandolin and rest my pinky finger lightly on the instrument's top, without touching the bridge (it's easy enough to apply a thin stick-on vinyl pickguard to prevent wear to the top). My hand never touches the bridge, no armrest is required, and there is virtually no wear to the top. There is also no effect on tone by simply resting the pinky lightly on the top IMO, despite what some folks claim.

Of course, I don't play Bluegrass (which would bury my pancake sonicly I'm sure). I play mostly ragtime and just prefer the tone of the flat tops. Bluegrass "choppers" undoubtedly will have different requirements.