Sustainable Ebony

**Jim Nollman** · Jun-10-2012, 6:26pm

Jeffff, I don't see how you can possibly read through this discussion and conclude that the only choice we have is between ebony and some synthetic. Nor is there much truth to your statement that musicians are by and large a "traditional bunch". Musicians are people, and like everyone else we're a diverse lot.

As far as your other comment, can we agree that this thread was initiated in response to Bob Taylor's strong statement about his company essentially cornering the ebony market. You are not being fair to imply that anyone who chimes in with an opinion about this multifaceted and timely issue is a hypocrite unless they play a Mix mandolin. Please let the thread continue without forcing theCafe moderator to shut it down for getting too heated.

**Jeffff** · Jun-10-2012, 6:31pm

I offered an opinion and asked a question. This is a common occurrence on the internet.

If I hurt anyones feelings I apologize.

**Jeff May** · Jun-10-2012, 7:05pm

Originally Posted by Jeffff

Because musicians are a traditional bunch by and large. Not too many folks are ready for a synthetic fretboard on their mandolins or guitars. If you ask an acoustic guitar player what a guitar is made of the vast majority will tell you, spruce, rosewood or mahogany and ebony. For guitars maple has a small following, walnut even smaller. Cherry never really got a chance.

I see some people accusing Bob Taylor of questionable motives. How many will order a mandolin with a synthetic fretboard? Better yet, how man will buy a Mix?

I have a Martin D16 RGT with a synthetic (micarta) fretboard and it's fine. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a mandolin with the same.

**Dobe** · Jun-14-2012, 3:02pm

Thread was getting a little hairy for a moment; how about a photo ! A buddy has a neary all white Ebony fingerboard w/ matched headplate on a new electric nearing completion. I'll try & get some pics of it shorty, but the board looked like this with almost no streaking. Made a heck of a stink when ripping it !

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**Kerry Krishna** · Jun-15-2012, 12:47am

I don't talk about it much on these pages, but the local Windsor Plywood chain store here in Prince George Northern BC gets all the reject wood from the Canadial Larrivee factory. There is a LOT of wood that comes in too. One of the things that comes in at least once a year ( and they never run out) is unsloted/unproifiled ebony fretboards . The bin that they get fits on a pallet, with the sides about 36 inches tall, filled to the brim. Probably about 5 thousand individual boards. I have bought dozens of them over the last 7 years here. Lots of streeking/cracked/warped unuseable boards, but what is cracked board for guitar, is a great board for a mandolin. Boards are $13.00 each. It seems to me that I have seen a lot of ebony sifting through their piles. Hundreds of mahogany back and site sets too, and ocasionally massivly flamed koa, and they also got a few bins of reject Koa uke necks a few years back. There must have been 5000 ofr them at one point. All sizes too. Each with the headstock cut about 1 inch too short for use ! I imagine someone lost their job over that!

**Rob Grant** · Jun-15-2012, 7:23pm

Cracks in ebony is part and parcel of the way the tree grows. I can't think of a billet from an ebony tree I've cut that doesn't contain multiple, fine cracks. Good 'ol thin CA glue is the cure here and if done properly the finished product is stronger and the cracks visually imperceptible. No ruckin' 'furries, mate!<g>

**Jim Baker** · Jun-16-2012, 9:14am

But, who gets the black ebony? Will it be reserved for high end instrments? Will it sell for a premium?

**John Arnold** · Jun-17-2012, 7:45pm

who gets the black ebony?

Whoever Taylor sells it to.

Will it be reserved for high end instruments?

Probably.

Will it sell for a premium?

Definitely. Taylor may have some control over the supply, but on the secondary market, the price is set by demand.
There are two ways this could go....either the glut of mottled ebony will increase acceptance by the general public, or it will increase the demand for black ebony because of the relative scarcity.
It may be a wash, but I think the latter will win out.

**Goodin** · Jun-18-2012, 10:30am

Originally Posted by Dobe

Thread was getting a little hairy for a moment; how about a photo ! A buddy has a neary all white Ebony fingerboard w/ matched headplate on a new electric nearing completion. I'll try & get some pics of it shorty, but the board looked like this with almost no streaking. Made a heck of a stink when ripping it !

Beautiful wood...that appears to be "black and white" ebony which is a different species than the subject Gaboon ebony, just FYI. I've never seen it used for fretboards and would be curious to see how it looks.

**DougC** · Jun-18-2012, 11:04am

Originally Posted by Jeff May

I have a Martin D16 RGT with a synthetic (micarta) fretboard and it's fine. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a mandolin with the same.

This stuff is really better than ebony because it does not wear out. I would like that on my custom Collings mandolin.

Anybody have a guess as to how many ebony fret board / finger boards are made a day in the guitar / violin industry?

Spruce are you reading this? Any "insider" views?

**jesserules** · Jun-18-2012, 11:49am

pearloid (aka MOTS) and formica have been used successfully for banjo fingerboards for decades now.

**Jim Nollman** · Jun-18-2012, 12:46pm

Where i live, I've noticed that a number of people have put in hardwood decks over the past few years. Ipe is the most popular and the most expensive, (about $9 a linear foot) followed by purpleheart and tigerwood (gonsolo Alves) (about $6.50 a linear foot). All of this stuff is plantation grown. These woods are actually cheaper than clear red cedar or yellow cedar, which is what just about everybody used to use for decks, 20 years ago. They are also much harder, and more resistant to decay than cedar. They never need stain or paint.

Before I'd ever seen this thread, I'd taken some notice of the Ipe as a potential replacement for ebony fingerboards. The wood naturally ages to a very dark brown. To my inexperienced eye, the wood seems as heavy and hard and clear as ebony.

Because Ipe isn't used very much for instruments, I'd like to hear if maybe it has some structural flaw from a luthier's point of view.

Of course, about half the decks being built where i live are made with synthetics. I wouldn't expect many luthiers to use plastic decking material for fretboards, but not because they wouldn't do the job. Rather, plastic parts wouldn't be able to command the price of any beautiful wood. Then again, Ovation makes a great guitar out of plastic, and Mix makes a worthy mandolin, so why don't those companies experiment with synthetic fretboards?

Bottom line for me. If the instrument has the sound I'm seeking, and the body has a conifer top and any serviceable hardwood for the rest of the body and neck, i don't care a hoot what the fretboard is made from. So i guess that makes me a conservative and simultaneously a non-conservative.

**Jim Nollman** · Jul-03-2012, 12:19pm

Read this story today about the exploitation of one particular west African rainforest. Makes me wonder if this story in the NY Times bears any relationship to the new Taylor policy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/op...s.html?_r=1&hp