May be a Ermelinda Silvestri, but some things are puzzling

[SusanH]

Hi Lovely People,

I'm the researcher from an Antique shop in Hungerford, Berkshire and we have a mandolin that we are looking to send to auction, but I always like to know as much as possible before consigning stuff. So, bearing that in mind, if its OK to post still, please can you have a look at the photos attached.

Although this has huge similarities to Ermelinda Silvetri mandolins, there's a few things that puzzle me:

Why is the pegboard like a guitar.
Why can I not find any 12 string (4 x 3 strings) mandolins
If its a Sylvestri, why is there no label inside or makers stamp on the front.

There is an old label inside from P Costantino a Musical Instruments Depot in Valletta

Your assistance would be very much appreciated.

Susan Hofgartner

[mrmando]

In what respects do you think it is similar to a Silvestri?

I did find one Silvestri mandolin with a slotted headstock, although it was a flatback German-style instrument. But all the Silvestri mandolins I looked at had some kind of distinctive fluting at the end of the headstock, which this one doesn't have. The Silvestri shop wasn't shy about self-promotion; like some other Catanian makers it would brand the name of the shop into the top of some of its instruments.

Use of the Greek key pattern in the rosette and purfling (where Catanian makers usually used a squiggle) is distinctive. I suppose it's possible that this is by a Greek maker, although I doubt the pattern alone is enough to establish that.

12-string mandolins are less common than 8-strings, to be sure, but not unheard of. Whoever built this, it is obviously a highly decorated presentation model. Perhaps one of our archivists has a photo that's a good match for it.

[SusanH]

Thank you for your reply,

As you noted, it was the similarity of the Greek key patterning, and a colleague had suggested that it might be this maker before I got started on the research. When I started researching my doubts grew. Perhaps I should have refrained from any suggestion of a maker when I posted.

[mrmando]

Do you have photos of another Silvestri with a Greek key pattern?

[SusanH]

Hi,

The best photo I can find is on a Sotheby's auction (didn't sell). This is a short link to the web page http://bit.ly/KvsCue - (I don't want to copy and post it for copyright reasons).

As you will see the decoration has strong similarity, there are some engraved patterns on the mother of pearl, and there is extensive use of tortoiseshell on the headstock.

I also remembered that there is a spare bit of metalwork in the case, so I have attached photographs of that, next to another view of the instrument showing the mounting for the strings.

[Jim Garber]

Susan: whatever you have it is a higher end instrument with full pearl fretboard, fluted back and tortoise overlay on the neck. Very unusual for 12 string instruments. The headstock is a copy of the Embergher slotted style for orchestra models, but AFAIK, Embergher shop did not make 12 string mandolins and the other features do not match up very well with the Embergher style.

It also might help to post some photos of the full back and details of the bowl, back of the neck and headstock.

[Jim Garber]

Here is a similar Cosentino-labeled 12 string from Bonhams auction of June of last year. Definite resemblance including headstock shape.

A Twelve String Mandolin
Labelled P. Cosentino, Musical Instrument Depot, 11 Strada Marina Valleta, the spruce table with Mother of Pearl inlaid peacock design and MOP inlaid edge work and border design, twelve ivory and brass tuning screws, the head and neck of tortoise shell with MOP inlay, thirty three ribbed oval back, use and wear, restorations.

You cannot always go from inlays to ID instruments since many makers bought their inlays from the same suppliers.

Interesting... Valletta is the capital of Malta.

[KristinEliza]

Can't add any info...but WOW...I LOVE that tailpiece!

[mrmando]

The "spare piece of metalwork" is most likely a tailpiece cover. You can see that it's hinged, and that the small part below the hinge is designed to fit between the two center string posts. There are three holes in the tailpiece for pins or screws or some other hardware to hold the cover on to the tailpiece. The larger portion of the cover would lie across the strings at the base of the instrument.

Interesting that the Sotheby's listing puts Silvestri in Rome circa 1900 when other instruments have labels indicating the shop was in Catania. The Sotheby's mandolin is also highly ornate, but you'll note that it still has that maker's brand right there on the table. AFAIK only Sicilian luthiers did that ... don't believe I've ever seen a brand like that on a mandolin from Rome or Naples. Also interesting that Sotheby's calls its instrument "Neapolitan" ... I might be out of the mainstream but I've come to think that mandolins from Catania deserve their own category. Anyhow, yours, with its pseudo-Roman headstock, is most definitely not Neapolitan in style or origin -- at least, not purely. Jim may be on to something with that Cosentino. The tailpiece is a potential smoking gun ... or, if you could find a pickguard that's an exact match, that could be a smoking gun as well.

[SusanH]

Hi All,
Its 10:30 pm here and the USA is definitely still daytime

I have taken the additional photos as kindly suggested by Jim Garber and here they are. I missed that mandolin at Bonhams, must be because I searched "12" not "twelve"! And I'm just editing this post having read Martin's fascinating post. BTW not sure what a "smoking gun" translates as?

[mrmando]

Interesting... Valletta is the capital of Malta.

Hm. I guess that depends on whether the name of the street is "Strada Marina Valleta" or "Strada Marina" in Valleta ...

I seem to recall seeing a Maltese mandolin once, but IIRC it was dirty and nearly in pieces and looked nothing like the Cosentino. The question has come up before:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...e-other-evenin

[mrmando]

Tortoiseshell on the back of the neck? That's insane...

Except for some wear on the tortoiseshell and the tuners, and a few missing pieces of MOP, it appears to be in really nice shape. No cracks anywhere.

...Whoops, from the OP:

There is an old label inside from P Costantino a Musical Instruments Depot in Valletta

Did we establish that Cosentino/Costantino in Valletta was a maker, or a dealer?

[Graham McDonald]

Three pics from my files which might be useful. First is a pic of a Catanian mandolin owned by a Cafe member. Same purfling, which does suggest it may also be a Silvestri, (the owner didn't specify the label, I should check) but it has an unusual slot head, with a scroll!

I do have another picture of a Catanian mandolin, which I have tagged as Cosentino, but that could be the dealer label rather than the maker.

Third is a 16-string with the same style of head (but even bigger) which I remember as having a Maltese shop label and what I think is the most wonderful "woman in a boat" scratchplate. I am looking for a good picture of one of these scatchplates for the book.

I can't imagine why Christies would label a Silvestri as a Roman mandolin, unless he had a retail outlet there and put that address on the label.

Tortoise shell was not uncommon for the outer veneer of more expensive Italian mandolins. A friend has a 20s Calace with tortoiseshell sheathed neck and just about every Neapolitan mandolin has the neck veneered with something.

Susan, if you have a good sized front-on shot of the mandolin that you wouldn't mind seeing in a book on mandolins, please PM me, or contact me through the website. Ta

cheers

graham

Tortoiseshell on the back of the neck? That's insane...

Except for some wear on the tortoiseshell and the tuners, and a few missing pieces of MOP, it appears to be in really nice shape. No cracks anywhere.

...Whoops, from the OP:


Did we establish that Cosentino/Costantino in Valletta was a maker, or a dealer?

[Jim Garber]

It is difficult to establish whether Cosentino (not Constantino according to the label) was a dealer or maker (or both), but I would say, at least from what i can see that the OP's mandolin and the one I pictured on this thread as noted by Martin, are similar in design.

[SusanH]

Thank you all so much.

Yes the tailpiece fits as you described, and there is very little damage - just four pieces off the edge of the main body and four off the neck. All the tortoiseshell is present, but a small section is loose near the top of the neck.

I've got another comment to add (slight diversion) having just found the most marvellous artist who painted in 1870 "Italien a la mandoline" with a mandolin looking fairly similar to ours - William Adolphe Bouguereau (French, 1825-1905) http://bit.ly/Md0eQj. Maybe this is already famous in the Mandolin community, but it was a pleasure to discover this artist today.

Susan

[Jim Garber]

That Bougereau mandolin looks more like an early Vinaccia to me. It is a nice painting. Many times instruments even painted by excellent artists look nothing like the actual ones but this one does.

[Ray(T)]

Wait a while and another one will come along - http://www.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/Ca...2/lot0041.html

[SusanH]

Not only odd but bizarre, this is the auction house that I contacted the day after their current sale closed for entries, and I have an appointment with them for later this month! Had I called them a couple of days earlier then there might have been two in the same sale. It will be interesting to see the result of this sale to be sure.

[Jim Garber]

That one has a real cartooney scratchplate. I like Susan's much better.

[mrmando]

That fretboard is something else, though...