Hand to Neck guidelines ( No chokeing allowed)

[palosfv3]

After lurking around the forum for a while I noticed all the threads about the " Best mandolin for a beginner , Questions should I ask my builder , ect ...... I have not been able to find a thread that has an in depth discussion of the relationship of hand size and finger length to the thickness of the neck and type of fretboard and what would best suit an individual. Some forum members have posted they adapt to the mandolin they are playing or they state their preference for a particular type or size of neck . I had a mandolin built in the mid 80's and the builder spent a noteable amount of time on this issue , asking for hand tracings and ring sizes of my fingers . I find this mandolin extremely comfortable to play and only recently when it needed to have some repairs done did I realize how much this mattered .

It is said that the mass of the neck has an impact on the tone of the mandolin. If so the neck size is going to have a significant influence on the tuning of the mandolin and the overall voice of the instrument . How is this factored into the mix of information used when building an instrument?

At what level of skill should one start to consider neck / hand size information in making a purchase or commissioning a new build and what are the rules of thumb for proper hand to neck sizing ?

[CES]

This is actually a very interesting concept, unfortunately I have no scientific answer to your question. I have accumulated several mandolins (all lower priced), all with different neck profiles and variations in string spacing. I've found that the radius of the FB and size of the frets affect playability more for me than the neck size. I have reasonably sized hands but shorter fingers (glove size 8), and I've not had major problems adjusting to any of the mandolins I play, other than my general lack of talent.

I have a 22inch scale OM, however, in which reach does become an issue if I try to play it with mandolin fingering...

As for which "level" you should begin to consider these factors in buying a mandolin, I think it's something you should consider, if you can, with your first mandolin purchase. For example, learn 3 or 4 2 or 3 finger chords, go to a shop, and play as many mandolins as you can, then choose the profile that feels the best to you and look for mandolins with similar necks within your budget. This approach is possible if you live in a mando-rich environment. Most people won't have this option and will be choosing between the Savannah and Fender starter packs unless they buy online.

That said, I also think you have to play for a while before you can know what you really like and what you really need. It took me several years of trying every mandolin I could get my hands on to come to my present preferences, and it wouldn't surprise me if they change a bit as the years wear on. SO, I wouldn't tell someone buying their first mandolin to worry much about it given the limited options available in the beginner's typical price range, unless they have enormously thick fingers. Even then, in the sub 500 dollar range, options are limited.

I'm curious to see if any builders or customers of custom builds chime in...

[Jim Garber]

Interesting... I would think that a luthier who can fit a perfect neck to a player from measurements of hand size/rule of thumb (no pun intended) is a true genius. The only way I can think would be for the player to actually try a bunch of instruments and find which one is the most comfortable. I know what I like, for instance... i do fine within a range of neck thicknesses on mandolin but I am not too comfortable with a wider neck. I prefer around 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" is too wider in general. I have no real preference for radius vs. flat tho.

[Fran]

They don't make piano keyboards to measure in order to accommodate a player's hands and finger size... Why would a mandolin, guitar or violin have a custom-made neck ?!? Go, try various instruments and see which one feels best.

[John Arabi]

They don't make piano keyboards to measure in order to accommodate a player's hands and finger size... Why would a mandolin, guitar or violin have a custom-made neck ?!? Go, try various instruments and see which one feels best.

I fail to see how what is not done in piano construction needs to bear on what can be done by a good luthier.

[palosfv3]

They don't make piano keyboards to measure in order to accommodate a player's hands and finger size... Why would a mandolin, guitar or violin have a custom-made neck ?!? Go, try various instruments and see which one feels best.

You are missing the point. Your saying your foot should fit in any shoe that is made . You just have to accommodate for a poor fit . Instead of trying mandolins till you find one that is comfortable for you , wouldn't it be good to know large hands are better suited to a specific style of neck or thick fingers fret easier on a x.xx" wide fret board. While I'm sure luthiers will not be able to fit a mandolin like a tailored suit. There has to be some method for getting close other than trial and error.

[Jim Garber]

If I were commissioning a luthier to make me a mandolin, I would speak to him/her about my playing styles, mandolins I have liked and disliked and types of tone and finishes, etc. I think an excellent luthier is one who can translate all that conversation into what the customer wants. I suppose there can be some manner of measuring but even if my hands were the same as yours, I can almost guarantee that we could still have different tastes in neck profiles. There are other factors: for instance, I am an older guy and I may have arthritis in my hands. Maybe I like to finger pick my mandolin.

Now, since I have a bunch of mandolins already -- and I have thought this thru a bit -- I would either visit my luthier with a mandolin that has the neck I like (my snakehead) or ship it to him to measure or else measure it myself. I know everyone does not have that luxury but I do think if you said to many mandolin makers I want the neck to be like my 23 Gibson A snakehead, I think he/she would know what you meant.

I do agree with the OP that if you are going the custom route you should have the option to get the neck that is right for you. hey, if you ordered a custom piano I am sure that you could have it made with smaller keys if you are willing to pay the price.

[Fran]

A mandolin, just like a violin, has a ridiculously short and narrow neck, compared to many other stringed instruments. If you come from playing guitar, you will always find a mandolin fingerboard very cramped. If you want to play chords like on a guitar, you will find it very difficult to play chords on a mandolin! A mandolin with a wide and long neck wouldn't sound the same, hence the octave mandolin.

[Jim Garber]

I had a mandolin built in the mid 80's and the builder spent a noteable amount of time on this issue , asking for hand tracings and ring sizes of my fingers. I find this mandolin extremely comfortable to play and only recently when it needed to have some repairs done did I realize how much this mattered.

It sounds like you have found the ideal neck for you and you had a luthier who worked closely with you. Are you looking for the formulas your luthier used? Why not ask that person, assuming he or she is still around and reachable?

[JeffD]

At what level of skill should one start to consider neck / hand size information in making a purchase or commissioning a new build and what are the rules of thumb for proper hand to neck sizing ?

I think it is taken into account in purchase by the person trying out various mandolins and finding one he likes or prefers.

As to a rule of thumb, I think there is a lot of individual taste involved. There are stubby fingere players that like thin necks, thick necks, and folks with long elegent fingers that like thin necks, thick necks. There really isn't a standard, or even a prediction of what would be preferred based on hand size. I never heard of a luthier taking hand measurements before. I don't doubt you, its just the first I have ever heard of it. I am glad it worked out for you.

[OldSausage]

I agree, I would be amazed if you could really figure out what a neck profile should be from ring sizes and hand traces. I would imagine at best it might give you some clues about what string spacing might work. But 2 people with the same size hands could have very different anatomies and techniques and grips, and be suited to very different neck profiles.

[Ben Milne]

A mandolin, just like a violin, has a ridiculously short and narrow neck,

I find most guitars and basses have ridiculously long necks with inefficient use of space and don't get me started on the redonculous way they're tuned.

Kidding aside, a full 13 7/8 scale mandolin isn't for everyone, and it's not unheard of to customise a scale length to suit hand size etc. Swapping between scales might take a moment to adjust.

[Justus True Waldron]

Interesting topic. I'm not sure there is really a totally scientific method to figuring out neck design, but I think everyone has their preferences, and I do think necks make a difference. My luthier will customise a neck however the user wants it, but if he's building a stock mando He'll usually use one of two neck types: his Bill Monroe neck with dimensions taken straight from Big Mon's axe, and a wider/skinnier more guitar like neck with a radius fretboard. The latter is what he has on his personal mando, and I always liked it and figured when I got one made I would get that neck. However, I ended up buying a used one from him rather than build custom, and the neck I got was a lot more of the Monroe style - flat fretboard and thicker neck all around. Coming from my Kentucky which I had given a really nice V-ed out speed neck if felt rather bulky and I didn't like it too much (even though I loved the rest of the instrument). Marty told me he would gladly change the neck shape if I wanted him too, but suggested I take a month or so to get used to it as is and then see if I still wanted it change. I am very happy for that advice; it's now going on 6 months and the neck that once felt chunky now feels like home. I've already worn most of the finish off the back of the neck, and the natural wear is just smooth and right feeling, not to mention better looking in my opinion than one that was all scraped down. If the neck shape actually makes it any harder to play than my old one I've never noticed - in fact I can play more technical pieces a lot cleaner on the new guy than the old one, even with higher action and the thicker neck. Do I think neck shapes make a difference? Certainly, and everyone seems to have a preference. Does it make a huge difference? Probably not... As I mentioned the neck on my mando now feels like HOME, fitting my hand to it is now one of the best feelings I've ever had with any instrument...