young players

**Charles E.** · May-28-2012, 9:27am

I attended the Fiddlers Grove festival over the weekend and after reading Jim's post about festival workshops, I wanted to check one out for myself. I showed up early and there were three or four people standing around including a father and daughter. I inquired as to who would be teaching the workshop and the young lady (who I guess was mid teens) said "I am". Well I thought it was a fine workshop. The young lady, who's name is Harper, taught our group her version of Cherokee Shuffle, went over some scales and answered any questions we had. I also want to say that this girl could flat out play! After the workshop, she and her Dad and another young man jammed for awhile, I was very impressed.
As the day went on I was struck by how many young kids, both boy's and girls played instruments and especially how well they played them. I think the future of traditional music is in good and capable hands.

**Bill Clements** · May-28-2012, 9:48am

Just think how better the world would be with more kids holding instruments, whether they be band/orchestral/fretted. With school budgets all over the country taking in on the chin, we all need to support music education in our communities. I've sold band/orchestral instruments for 32 years, and music can be a life-changing for young people, given just a little encouragement. Great post Charley; I'm glad you enjoyed your experience and found a gifted young musician who may have inspired others like her!

**Charles E.** · May-28-2012, 10:01am

Here is a video of Harper from 2010...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MWyb6je6g4

She has only gotten better.

**Willie** · May-28-2012, 10:29am

She does seem to have a nice style on mandolin but I like to hear "Gold Rush" with a little less of the fancy scales and things she is playing....

One thing that I have found with a lot of the younger pickers is that they seem to be more interested in playing songs from sheet music or using the skills that they learned in their school music classes and they don`t seem to have much feeling in their music....

I know what people call bluegrass is changing and maybe that is OK but I hope a few of the up and coming pickers still like to do it like Monroe and Flat and Scruggs did it...Some of this new stuff is like Monroe said "Ain`t no part of nothing"....I do find that when my band plays most of our gigs is that people, even the youngsters, want to hear it played the old traditional way....I just listened to a few songs by The Navy Band and just had to turn it off... It sure is different from what Bill Emerson played when they started out....

Just my opinion but I hope some of these youngsters soon learn to play by ear and put some feeling into their music....

Willie

**Randi Gormley** · May-28-2012, 1:15pm

I heard a brilliant young fiddler last Friday, two- or three-time all Ireland, whose technique was stellar but who seemed just a little, well, shallow in the emotion department. But what can you expect from someone still in his early 20s? That's the only criticism of the young, upcoming kids (and they certainly make me wish I had started 40 years earlier than I did!) is they play for speed and laughs, and don't have much gravitas. That'll come later, of course. But there certainly is a difference between hearing a young blistering player and an old-timer who is willing to slow down and be musical since they have nothing to prove.

**Ivan Kelsall** · May-29-2012, 2:27am

I'm on Willie's side in this - to an extent !.There are a lot of very,very capable youngsters out there on Banjo/Mandolin / Guitar etc..
The main fault that i find with some of them,is that their 'instrumental capabilities' are showcased rather than the music itself. It's great to have a terrific bunch of 'licks & tricks' in your musical armoury,but they don't all need to be used at once in everything that's played.Too many of them seem to have the idea that 'more notes' are better,to the extent of loosing the basic melody line.maybe it's just a youthful urge to show off.There's nothing wrong in that,who on here hasn't done it at one time or another.I think that (hopefully) as they mature,they'll simplify rather than complicate their playing styles. This example might illustrate what i mean :- http://youtu.be/E8TzXP4ySO0 Truthfully,if i hadn't heard what went before,i'd never have guessed the tune from what Sierra Hull plays - & i say that having bought both her last CD's. She's so much better than that,
Ivan

**OldSausage** · May-29-2012, 7:27am

Well, I don't want to get into the "young people just cain't feel it like the old timers do" discussion, but I did listen to the linked video with Sam Bush, Sierra Hull, Allison Brown and Bobby Hicks. While I can see that her solo wasn't to everyone's taste, she was playing the third break, where you might be expected to diverge a bit from the melody, and Bobby Hicks had just played a break that was quite "out there" at the end. Sierra hits the key notes of the melody, and outlines and ornaments it as well as adding some flashy stuff. It is complex, but it's also interesting and the melody is not lost. It can be hard to hear because her mando is too low in the mix - not her fault though.

**Charles E.** · May-29-2012, 6:00pm

I was impressed with Harpers poise and maturaty but it is true that not every young player has those qualities. I also had the pleasure of playing with a father and his son (who is probably 16 or so) at the campsite, both are solid flatpickers but the young man was really good. He also plays trumpet in the school orchestra (first chair) so his musical training is working well for him.
On the other hand I find this kid to be rather annoying........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jj4g...feature=relmfu

**EarlG** · May-29-2012, 9:39pm

I thought Harper played fine. She's probably already a good teacher and I bet she gets a thrill out of showing others how they can play better.

**farmerjones** · May-30-2012, 2:08pm

Originally Posted by Charles E.

On the other hand I find this kid to be rather annoying........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jj4g...feature=relmfu

Y'know the way you can't un-see stuff?

I've jammed with young, talented kids, and it's fun to see the realization, the jam, the interaction with other pickers, is the payoff. Young or old, every jammer's had that feeling, and you want it again and again.

**Willie** · May-30-2012, 7:47pm

Mr. Jones.....I know all of us look for different things in pickers as far as talent goes but at a recent jam in Florida there happened to be three mandolin players in one group that I was in and when I play I try to stick with the melody as much as I can, iin fact I don`t even know how to play any scales, anyway after one song those other pickers told me they wish they could hear and play the melody of songs the way I did it, they were all trained in learning to play by reading tabs or sheet music and when they took their breaks I never knew what they were playing or where they were in the song....I am not saying they don`t have any talent but when I see and hear that kind of playing and hear someone in the audience say, "Boy, he sure is a good mandolin player" it just makes me cringe...One of my favorite bands many years ago was Don Reno and when his son Dale came along I washed my hands of listening to him, he isn`t playing anything but a whole bunch of notes all running together....Call it skill or talent if you want and I`ll just call it NOTHING but improvising because they can`t hear the melody....I still see Dale on Ronnie Reno`s old time music program and I just turn down the volume or fast forward the tape.....

It`s just what I like compared to what you and others might like but to me bluegrass should be played so a listerner can tell what is being played....

I don`t want to start any controversity on here but just wanted to tell how I feel...BTW...I did a short tour with Reno and Smiley before Ronnie or Dale and was glad to get back home.....Don was a hard man to please....

Thanks....Willie

**PJ Doland** · May-30-2012, 7:58pm

Looks like those siblings can still tear it up:

**farmerjones** · May-31-2012, 8:36am

Originally Posted by Willie

Mr. Jones.....I know all of us look for different things in pickers as far as talent goes but at a recent jam in Florida there happened to be three mandolin players in one group that I was in and when I play I try to stick with the melody as much as I can, iin fact I don`t even know how to play any scales, anyway after one song those other pickers told me they wish they could hear and play the melody of songs the way I did it, they were all trained in learning to play by reading tabs or sheet music and when they took their breaks I never knew what they were playing or where they were in the song....I am not saying they don`t have any talent but when I see and hear that kind of playing and hear someone in the audience say, "Boy, he sure is a good mandolin player" it just makes me cringe...One of my favorite bands many years ago was Don Reno and when his son Dale came along I washed my hands of listening to him, he isn`t playing anything but a whole bunch of notes all running together....Call it skill or talent if you want and I`ll just call it NOTHING but improvising because they can`t hear the melody....I still see Dale on Ronnie Reno`s old time music program and I just turn down the volume or fast forward the tape.....

It`s just what I like compared to what you and others might like but to me bluegrass should be played so a listerner can tell what is being played....

I don`t want to start any controversity on here but just wanted to tell how I feel...BTW...I did a short tour with Reno and Smiley before Ronnie or Dale and was glad to get back home.....Don was a hard man to please....

Thanks....Willie

I don't think we're on opposite sides here. Young or old, everybody starts somewhere. And after the starting gate comes and goes, there's still years and miles of maturity that has to take place As you well know, sometimes the maturity just never happens. Jams are a place for the tab, notation bound, or purely inexperienced, to get their feet wet, and build musicianship. I also know that a good jam is not a lesson, but an example. All we/I can do is serve as an example.

**AlanN** · May-31-2012, 8:57am

Everybody likes their cup o' tea.

Now Willie, I happen to dig Dale's playing, at least the stuff he did back in the day. There's an old LP called Don Reno Family and Friends, or something. Rice is on it, many others. Dale takes some nifty breaks, one in particular is on the tune Clear Skies, he just had a certain flavor to his style that excited me. And you can't tell me he doesn't stick to the melody (with some panache, I grant you) on that recording Drawing From The Well and on the several Reno Brothers recordings, tunes like Tarnation. These days, he is into that Hayseed Dixie stuff, cannot hack it.