Frankenstein A-1 w/ F Neck?!?!

**PJ Doland** · May-20-2012, 9:26am

I've seen a fair number of F-style mandolins with snakehead headstocks, but I've never seen anything quite like this before.

**lenf12** · May-20-2012, 9:43am

Gibson A-1 body with a rather amateurish F-5 repro neck. I certainly would not bid on this item. I do however like the looks of the F-5 neck on a A-5 Jethro Burns model. YMMV

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

**jim simpson** · May-20-2012, 10:34am

Perhaps a candidate for a snakehead conversion?lol
Intereeesting bridge!

**sunburst** · May-20-2012, 11:22am

Originally Posted by lenf12

Gibson A-1 body with a rather amateurish F-5 repro neck.

I suspect that neck is a Gibson neck, but it obviously was not originally on that mandolin!

**John Hill** · May-20-2012, 11:50am

Check out the nut on that thing, the first g string is hanging over the edge of the fretboard at the 1st fret....easy playing to be sure.

**MikeEdgerton** · May-20-2012, 1:53pm

The neck and inlay look very 60's-70's Gibson to me. I have a feeling this may have been done at the factory. The neck is bound, that's kind of an optical illusion with the first string. Not that it's square on the fretboard, it's just not really hanging.

**Jim Garber** · May-21-2012, 8:26am

Was Gibson using script in the 60s/70s? I thought it would be squarish. And that flowerpot looks bizarro to me. Fretboard is not right either. Am I looking at the wrong photo?

That volute looks odd too, tho I am not that familiar with that era.

**sunburst** · May-21-2012, 8:36am

Gibson used the volute for a while, and the wide, blocky peghead. The script, flowerpot and fingerboard could have been changed, or just added to a neck blank (with no overlay and fingerboard) by whoever put it all together.

**lenf12** · May-21-2012, 12:31pm

Originally Posted by sunburst

I suspect that neck is a Gibson neck, but it obviously was not originally on that mandolin!

Then this is clearly educational for me as I've never seen a Gibson F-5 neck with a volute in my 40+ years of mando-enthusiasm. It also seems to me that the scroll and curley que are way too open suggesting not a production job but rather an amateur job. Wouldn't a Gibson production neck require a lot of reworking of the dovetail joint area to get it to join the body at the 11-12th fret rather than the 15th fret as on real F-5 body? The flowerpot looks odd to me too (not sure why) and the Gibson logo inlaid on an angle rather than perpedicular just says "not Gibson" to me. I'm not trying to be contrary, John and certainly appreciate your observations.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

**MikeEdgerton** · May-21-2012, 1:06pm

I have a friend that I haven't seen in a year or so. He's in his 80's and has played the mandolin since he was a kid. He has an F style Gibson (I'm not sure of the model) with gold closed back Kluson tuners on it that has that funky flower pot for sure and I believe it has the Gibson script. He bought it new. I'm going to have to go looking for some pictures.

**bertdolin** · May-21-2012, 1:34pm

Years ago (90's maybe) I recall Gruhn's having a teens or 20's A4 style mandolin with an F style peghead that looked original.

**Jim Garber** · May-21-2012, 2:16pm

Check out these examples. I see little resemblance to the necks or logos on these:

1963 F-12: square script, no volute and squared-off fretboard end

1971 F-12: "The Gibson" script, no volute, florida end

1968 F-12: Square script, no volute, squared off fretboard end

1965 F5: Square script, no volute, florida Back of 65 F5

Originally Posted by bertdolin

Years ago (90's maybe) I recall Gruhn's having a teens or 20's A4 style mandolin with an F style peghead that looked original.

I think there is an A4 pictured in the Gruhn Acoustic book that was ordered custom with an F4 headstock.

**MikeEdgerton** · May-21-2012, 2:23pm

Has anyone checked out that serial number on the back of the headstock to see what it leads back to?

I'm sure this didn't come out of the factory this way originally. If it came out of Gibson that way it was a return trip. Barring that somebody did a lot of work to get that neck on that body. It's growing on me, I'm thinking of selling my truck and bidding on it.

**Jim Garber** · May-21-2012, 2:34pm

Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton

Has anyone checked out that serial number on the back of the headstock to see what it leads back to?

Serial number indicated 1913 as the auction listing indicates.

**MikeEdgerton** · May-21-2012, 2:39pm

I'm making an assumption and that's all it is. If I was in the Gibson repair department in 1975 or so and I received an old Gibson A to reneck and there was nothing in the shop that was currently being produced that would fit then my next choice would be to do a one off custom neck. Below is the picture of the back of a 75 Gibson guitar. My 75 Gospel had a similar neck. If they were using this little volute on other instruments it goes to follow that they might, and I'm saying might do the same on a one off mandolin neck. In an effort to look a little more period correct they might take a stab at the logo as well. Beyond that it's anyone's guess barring someone coughing up a factory repair order or something. I had a 32 F2 that had been renecked and refinished at Gibson in the 60's. It looked a little more normal than this only because it was already an f style instrument.

Click image for larger version.

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**Jim Garber** · May-21-2012, 9:56pm

Now, Mike, if it were me in that Gibson repair department, even back in the bad old days of 1975 I would put a std paddle head neck as a replacement. Why would you put an f-style neck on a vintage body. Seems like a bunch of extra work. If it were in the Gibson shop, why would they not have a mandolin neck -- it was not like they did not make mandolins at that time.

I still think it was an outside shop or luthier who made this addition. Right, Igor?

**MikeEdgerton** · May-21-2012, 10:00pm

Well, the owner might have asked for it and honestly, the guy doing the job might have thought it looked cool. I seriously doubt that any of the stock Gibson necks from that era would have slid right on. Again, barring some piece of Gibson paper documenting the change or Bill Halsey seeing it and saying he remembered someone else doing (as I don't think he's going to admit to doing it) the repair will remain a mystery. I have my truck listed right now trying to raise the funds for this.

**mandobassman** · May-21-2012, 10:10pm

The biggest oddity that comes to my mind is the use of a set of A style tuners on a F-5 headstock. Surely Gibson didn't do that! Also, I didn't realize that Gibson ever stamped a serial number on the back of the headstock.

**MikeEdgerton** · May-21-2012, 10:19pm

Why wouldn't Gibson do that? You give Gibson way too much credit, and yes Gibson did stamp serial numbers the back of instruments in that era and before. I'll note that whomever stamped that serial number not only had the numbers but had the form to hold them in place and stamp cleanly. I have the number and letter dies but I don't have a form to hold them in place (not that it couldn't be built).

By the way, I'm not saying this definitely was done by Gibson, I'm saying it could very well have been done by Gibson. It might have been done by any number of guys all over the country.

**HoGo** · May-22-2012, 4:20am

To me it fits workmanship and methods of Gibson. There were few mandolins built back then, and if they had spare pre-shaped neck and overlay for f style laying around they used it... As you see the inlays on the pics posted above show very little consistency. they took logo from guitar dept. or found old one in drawer and someone cut sort of flowerpot if it was requested. Perhaps whole older overlay was just there not used for regular production as specs in the catalog were different. The tuners might be ones thet were on the mandolin before repair and owner didn't want to change them.

**Jim Garber** · May-22-2012, 8:14am

I found you can blow up the pictures even more. Here is a view of the front and back of the headstock. I could be wrong but those don't seem to be 1913 tuners. It is quite possible that the sloppiness of the 1970s era Gibson would account for all this but I don't see why it would not be as probable that it was done by someone outside the shop. All I am hearing about Gibson is that it was inconsistent. That doesn't give me a clue as that it was made in the shop. So far I have not seen a similar peghead overlay or a mandolin neck with a volute associated with Gibson from that or any period.

Most likely we will never really know the story behind this one.

**Dobe** · May-22-2012, 1:28pm

[QUOTE=lenf12;1053371].... I do however like the looks of the F-5 neck on a A-5 Jethro Burns model.

If I'm remembering correctly, that would be a mandola sized hdstock on a Jethro, no ?

Here's one I re-worked:

**lenf12** · May-22-2012, 2:01pm

[QUOTE=Dobe;1054161][QUOTE=lenf12;1053371].... I do however like the looks of the F-5 neck on a A-5 Jethro Burns model.

If I'm remembering correctly, that would be a mandola sized hdstock on a Jethro, no ?[QUOTE]

Mandolas were out of production for so long by this timeframe that I seriously doubt it. There were however many changes to the F-5 mandolin headstock that it may appear to be from a mandola.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL