Small acoustic amp for mandolin AND guitar

[Steve G]

If you want the most pure acoustic sounding amp for guitar, mandolin, and in my case fiddle, look no further than the Ultrasound. I've tried a lot of them, and none come close. They come in different wattage- one sure to meet your budget. I'm not sure of the Dean Markley connection, as mine is a few years old. The company in W. Des Moines Iowa only makes acoustic amps. So they're not an offshoot of an electric amp company. The guitar/dobro player in one of my bands was so blown away by the sound of mine that he went out and bought one for himself. I play a 100 wt. one, but am thinking of going up to 250 watt one. The best part about them, besides the sound is their small size and light weight.

I just got a used Ultrasound Pro-250 from Musicians Friend last week after a couple of months of indecision. I am beyond pleased. I have K & K's on all my instruments with no internal mics and it sounds great.

[narrick]

how about a zt lunchbox acoustic??? is small and loud (200W), it has mic input (phantom power), effects loop, aux input, line out, external speaker out... it's not bad for 400$

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'm thinking about a small acoustic amp that would work with both a mandolin and a guitar. Mostly it would be for jamming at home or friends; for any gigging I would use it more to control the sound, and put a mic in front of it if needed. The guitar has a sound hole pickup, while the mandolin would use a mic, so I want an amp with both 1/4" and XLR inputs, which most have. The obvious (to me) choices are the Marshall AS50D, the Fishman Loudbox Mini, or one of the Acoustic brand amps, either the 15 or the 30 watt. Also, and I hate to mention the "B" word here, is the Behringer ASX450.

I'm a little conflicted about the price range. Part of me just wants to get a small, under $200 (or even <$100) amp for banging around at home with pedals, and if I do start gigging regularly in the future, get a better one (trading or selling the cheaper one.) Another voice says get the best one I can, once, and use it for everything. Hence the range in my above choices.

I'd like to hear from anyone who's used any of these, or from anyone who's used a different one that they think was great. Or any other advice (go ahead, recommend a ham sandwich even tho I'm asking about different grilled cheese flavors...)

Thanks

Consider the Crate CA60 (no longer offered, but they turn up used all the time) or the modern equivalent, the CA6110DG...both are keepers and very reasonably priced.

CA60


CA6110DG

Of the two, I slightly prefer the older model, but either is excellent.

how about a zt lunchbox acoustic??? is small and loud (200W), it has mic input (phantom power), effects loop, aux input, line out, external speaker out... it's not bad for 400$

My daughter and I both got a ZT Lunchbox Acoustic, and I think it works great for mandolin/fiddle, not quite as good for a bassy acoustic guitar (but might be better on a less bassy guitar).

[Tim2723]

OMG! I actually HAVE a Crate CA 60 (and its little brother the CA 30 that lasted about a month!!). I didn't think any of those were still around. I still have a Crate PA 60, a four-channel head, 60 watts, with 12" speakers on floor stands that predate tripods and three way piezo horns in seperate little cabinets. All the stuff is in raw wood 'Packing Crates' that gave the line its name. There was a double 60 that was just two CA 60's in one cab. Are there any of those left?? They also had slave power amps that were 60 watts a piece and you could rig them in a million combinations. Any body remember this stuff?

[CelticDude]

I note that there's a CA60 on EBay now. Looking at the pics, it's quite nice looking, compared to some more modern ones. I'll add the Crates as amps to play thru if I get a chance.

[mandroid]

I just have a Roland AC 60,I like its size and it's padded Gig bag, so I can shoulder it
and carry mandolin case in same trip ..
they both can go in my push-bike trailer, too..

the AC 90 is 2x 8" and a tweeter, bigger, but not much heavier .

[disguiseglasses]

Fishman Loudbox Artist. I love mine. 120 watts of power. Combo connectors on both channels. Effects on both channels, both channels have phantom power. Wonderful natural sound. We use mine with two condenser mics set up a few feet in front of the band. Vocals and instruments are clean and natural sounding.

If I hadn't picked up a used AER Alpha when I did (and I LOVE it for both my instruments!), I would've gone this way. May be at the upper region of your budget, but the versatility will be well worth it.

[Mark Seale]

Add another possibility to the mix, has anyone had the opportunity to test the Acoustic Image amps? The Corus appears to be designed for our needs.

[Ben Milne]

If budget allows, look at AER or an SWR California blonde (this one has xlr outputs for each channel... Handy)
Otherwise consider a Kustom Sienna. The fishman are probably fine too.

[Tim2723]

Perhaps the OP could give us a better definition of what is meant by 'small' acoustic amp. While all are good suggestions, some of them are hardly 'small' amps.

[CelticDude]

Most of the suggestions fit my definition of "small amp". Part of "small" is money - $400 is a sort of upper limit. I think mostly I mean a single unit, combo amp, as opposed to a PA system, with separate components. Still, size-wise, the UltraSound DS4 seems about as big as I'd want, unless some bigger amp had incredible sound and great features at my price point. The DS4 appears slightly larger than the Marshall, which is a nice size.

[Tim2723]

Cool! I seemed to recall you talking about messing with pedals at home, and 250 watt amps are a bit much for the living room. If you can check out that Crate CA60 I can vouch for it as well. Heck of an amp and better than Crate's current offerings IMO. Of course, I'm biased as I was a Crate man for years before I switched to Bose (way over the financial limit). I hauled Crate gear around and dropped them down the stairs for a decade and never missed a job. Can't kill those things for the money.

[CelticDude]

Tim,

My messing with pedals will mostly be a looper, as an aid to practice (and general good fun), but it would be nice to use my favourite reverb and delay pedals with my acoustic instruments. The CA60 does look nice, but I don't know how I'd check it out before buying, as it's only available used. (The EBay one I'm watching is here). Still want to try the others as well.

My amp search has come to an unexpected snag: I can't find a sound hole pickup to fit my guitar All the usual suspects don't fit, so now I'm thinking about either an under-bridge or stick-on system (sort of the choices for mandolin), or just using a microphone.

[Tim2723]

Yeah, having to buy used has its downsides. Frankly, even the CA-60 is a lot of amp to unleash in your house. I stared to think you were looking at something in the 'practice amp' category.

What kind of guitar are we talking about? Why don't standard models fit? Most of these things are fairy generic in my experience and have a pretty wide tolerance for soundhole diameter. I was under the impression you already had a model in hand that worked for you.

I used a Lawrence like this one for a long time. They're very adaptable and not too pricey. I even strapped one on a mandolin once:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lawrence...item51995f2490

[CelticDude]

Tim,

I have a Guild GAD F20, with a 3 5/8" sound hole. The Seymour Duncan Woody and the Fishman Neo D just won't fit. I borrowed the Woody from the same friend who's loaning me the Behringer amp. Ordered the Fishman from Amazon, and it's going back (Amazon does have a really good return policy.) Good to know that you liked the Lawrence, as their model A300 is designed for small-body guitars. Looks like another Amazon order.

AFA amps, as I mentioned in one post, I'm a bit conflicted on the purpose of the amp. The immediate use would be practice, but it would be nice to have one I could gig with, if such a thing ever happened again (I even have a small gig coming up in August, with the guitar player who's being generous with his stuff...) I used to do contra dances, with occasional other gigs, and we would run the guitar and the mando into a small amp to control the sound ourselves, and then mic the amp if we needed. (Dance halls almost always had a "house" system.)

I guess I'm going thru a period of GEAS (gear acquisition syndrome), and am at least trying to be sensible about it.

[CelticDude]

I have a follow-up question, about the UltraSound AG50-DS4. In reading the manual, I notice that it has phantom power, but it's 13.6 volts, not the 48 volts that my mic needs. Also, it's on all the time; there's no way to turn it off. The manual does list a few mic's that they recommend, but I already have a condenser mic that I like, as well as another mic that's okay (it doesn't need phantom power.) The fact that the phantom power is on continuously worries me. Won't that hurt mic's that don't need it? (The manual says "This power source is on at all times and does not affect the standard operation of the amp, even when a condenser mic is not used."

I also note that the 15W UltraSound has a 3-band eq, but the 30 and 50W don't. That seems a shame.

[Tim2723]

I don't use condensers so I don't know how that voltage difference will affect things, but the mixers and amps I have with phantom power all state that it has no effect on unpowered devices. It just goes along for the ride. I've accidentally had the phantom power activated and it didn't do anything to my unpowered dynamic mic or mandolin. But if you have a powered device hooked to it, then it's drawing that power and the voltage might be an issue.

Did you get that Lawrence pickup?

[CelticDude]

Tim,

I did get the Lawrence pickup. The good news is that it fits my guitar, and is pretty easy to get in and out. It even sounds reasonably good. The pickup does stick out a bit though, interfering with fingerpicking. I can sort of bend it out of the way a bit. If I do reach a point where I'm gigging with the guitar, I'll get a better pickup and pay someone to install it, but for now this will work.

Thanks for the phantom power advice. I'll look at the mic's that UltraSound recommends, just for fun.

[almeriastrings]

I have a follow-up question, about the UltraSound AG50-DS4. In reading the manual, I notice that it has phantom power, but it's 13.6 volts, not the 48 volts that my mic needs. Also, it's on all the time; there's no way to turn it off. The manual does list a few mic's that they recommend, but I already have a condenser mic that I like, as well as another mic that's okay (it doesn't need phantom power.) The fact that the phantom power is on continuously worries me. Won't that hurt mic's that don't need it? (The manual says "This power source is on at all times and does not affect the standard operation of the amp, even when a condenser mic is not used."

As to voltage, the answer is it depends on the mic design, as foldedpath has pointed out. If you are using electret mics, these are fine run off lower voltage phantom sources. Indeed, many even operate to full spec off a 1.5v internal battery (e.g., AKG C1000S, Shure SM94, etc.). Even many 'true' condenser designs are quite happy in the range of 9-18v. This is invariably specified in the manual, so you just need to check. There are certainly some microphones are quite fussy about the supplied voltage, but most of these you are not too likely to be using with an acoustic amp in a live situation.

Normally, having phantom 'on' will have no effect at all, even on mics that do not require it. Provided the cables are wired correctly.

You don't say what your existing mic is, so I can't say if is is likely to work OK or not.

[magic-marmelade]

If you want something that is really on top of all little PA, here it is:http://www.stuffandthings.co.uk/pa.htm

It is Made in England by a great street performer Nick. I use both the stuffed (box with inputs, amp and loudspeaker) and the think (second loudspeaker), but even the stuffed alone is a killing machine.
4kg and a sound you don't really believe is possible.
And the sound itself is very suprising... using wireless mic, electro-acoustic mandolin or playing recorded tracks from a audio device... you hear details that compete with really high-end amplifiers.
I never managed to empty the battery in one day... i guess something like 10 hours with strong sound.

The PA's are costumizable...(number of input, protected or not...)

Nick is using some components that are not made anymore, the class T amplifier.
The result is that out of this 4 kilos of material, you get something like 70 watt... and play for rather big croud been perfectly heard...
When it comes to the price, it is not cheap, the PA's are made one by one, there can be a waiting time, especially during summer as Nick is touring also. Expect somewhere around the 1000 dollar.

Micro cube from Rolland which i used before that is just a children toy compared to that...

And in case you doubt, i am not involved with that business, i am just a costumer that feel like sharing his discovery!

[CelticDude]

I have two microphones: an MXL 603s condenser mic, which I like a lot, and which does require 48v of phantom power, and an Audio Spectrum AS-400 Low-Z handheld mic, which is okay but kind of lifeless. It does not require phantom power. I can't find out much more about it. I believe I got both as Musician Friend's Stupid Deals of the Day (after some research on each, of course).

I plugged both into the Behringer ACX450 that I'm borrowing, and surprise, they both work. What is surprising is that the MXL worked, even though I forgot to use the phantom power unit (I have a Nady unit). This means that the amp has phantom power, which is not documented in the advertising, or even in the manual!?

I also tried an Audix adapter, plugging the AS400 into the instrument input, and it worked well. I didn't try this with the MXL, as I wasn't sure what would happen using the phantom power.

This does bring up another question: If I use the MXL with an amp that has 15V of phantom power, as the Ultrasounds seem to, can I use my power unit, or would that be bad, as in causing damage to the power unit, the mic, the amp, or all of the above? I'm at the point where I'd rather have an XLR input without phantom power, and just use my unit, which I know works.

Thanks for all the advice.

[Tim2723]

About six months back there was a question about an amp that seemed to had constant-on power even though it didn't say so anywhere. I think it turned out to be a Behringer, but I'm not certain. Can't find the thread.

[CelticDude]

I went to the local music store and tried the 2 amps they had. One was a Fishman Loudbox Mini. A pleasant-sounding amp with the guitar, a nice size, and the reverb was pretty good. However, it was the second amp that surprised me - a Kustom Sienna 30. This sounded really good with the guitar. Nice and loud, pretty even sound, maybe a hair bassy, but controllable with the tone controls. The chorus was also effective, though chorus is not my favourite effect. My 2 gripes are that the reverb was unimpressive, especially for analog (meaning that it has springs that sproing), and it's heavy, about 30lbs. However, at half the price of the Fishman, it's now a contender.

Still need to get to Guitar Center and try their amps, which last check included the Marshall AS50D and the Behringer AT108, plus a couple others. Also, the UltraSounds keep getting such good reviews that I may order one from GC, so I can return it to a store if I don't like it as much as others.

I'm also considering the smaller amps with only instrument inputs because I have an adapter that works well with my mics. Also, the UltraSound DI Max looks like a good gadget to have to connect both guitar and mando into an amp. It does double the cost of a practice amp however.

Too many choices...