Ellis and Dudenbostel mandolins: Hands-on impressions?

**Glassweb** · May-20-2012, 11:39am

I've played a number of Lynn's mandolins that were superb. He just gets better and better. I ordered an Ellis custom made to my specs a couple of years ago and while it was perfection in terms of the build, it just didn't have the sound I was looking for. But I understand he had some at IBMA last year that were stellar. Too many good builders out there these days... choices, choices...

**doc holiday** · May-20-2012, 12:30pm

I can't believe the blacktop Ellis A special is still at Fiddler's Green. I played it (albeit upsidedown) in Nov when I picked mine up. There was a video up of Danny Bishop & Aubrey Haynie playing two Ellis mando's at IBMA & the blacktop was one of them. Lonestar...did you play that one?

**greg_tsam** · May-20-2012, 1:11pm

There have been two posts on here already about custom ordered mandos that didn't live up to expectations. Makes me want to stick with the used market from now on as long as I can try them out first. The next time I buy a mando I will definetly shop around for a used, well aged and played, proven mando that has the sound/action/personality I am looking for.

**lonestar_shawn** · May-20-2012, 3:01pm

Originally Posted by doc holiday

I can't believe the blacktop Ellis A special is still at Fiddler's Green. I played it (albeit upsidedown) in Nov when I picked mine up. There was a video up of Danny Bishop & Aubrey Haynie playing two Ellis mando's at IBMA & the blacktop was one of them. Lonestar...did you play that one?

Hi Doc,
Yes, I played that one. Visually it is stunning and soundwise it is right up there, but I think the sunburst A-style is even better. When I first played it a few weeks ago I came home and started looking for stuff to sell to get it, but I just couldn't make it work.

**doc holiday** · May-20-2012, 3:06pm

Greg...."that didn't live up to expectations"......sometime says it all. It doesn't necessarily relate in every case to the instrument.
I have a colleague that has had two Lloyd Loars.....the first one...."didn't live up" I've had the pleasure of sitting in front of great players....in both cases (Ellis mandolins & my current '37 00-18H) I've heard things I might not have heard from playing the instrument....of course that reflects my personal experience only.

**pjlama** · May-20-2012, 4:39pm

Doc, how did you like it compared to your Heiden? I've owned two Ellis'. An F and an A. The F was very good but the A "didn't live up to expectations", I'm guessing this is the new pc way of saying "not great". Anyway, Tom makes a very fine mandolin, the fit and finish are excellent as is the playability. That video from Fiddlers Green got my MASflaring up too though. I'd have another Ellis in a heartbeat.

**doc holiday** · May-20-2012, 5:31pm

PJ, I think I have an idea re: your ear. I heard Michael H play yours & it's a killer. My Ellis A Special is in the same league as my Heiden. either one would be enough mandolin.....Great open resonant tone right from the get go. Chad F at Greg Boyd's thought it was a great mandolin too..

**pjlama** · May-20-2012, 6:52pm

Yeah, Tom makes a good one for sure. So you did get to hear my Heiden, I really like that mandolin, I can't wait until it's back home. I've been enjoying my Collings but I miss the Heiden terribly. I think web is on to something, there's so many good builders so it's very difficult to choose plus every mandolin is different so that makes it worse.

**pefjr** · May-20-2012, 7:06pm

Originally Posted by sgarrity

This has induced a case of Ellis-MAS:

And here's Ben playing his personal Ellis F5 #200:

Now, that is a sweet sounding Ellis. Nice Maria Maldaur type blues. What was the name? "Lady and the Blues"?

**margora** · May-21-2012, 9:19am

I play classical mandolin, mostly contemporary music. I strongly prefer American-style instruments over bowlbacks. In addition to the usual requirements in a professional-grade instrument, I need something that is reasonably neutral sounding so as to fit into a variety of musical contexts. I currently play a Collings MT2, which suits me very well.

Of moderate to very high end instruments, I've played Campanella, Dudenbostel, Ellis, Gilchrist, Kimble and Nugget. Any one of these would satisfy my requirements very well. There is a Dudenbostel at Cotton Music in Nashville that I played not long ago. It is a superb instrument in every respect (and priced accordingly). Music Emporium has an Ellis (Deluxe A) that has extraordinary power and projection (and reasonably priced). The Gilchrists I have played have a very refined, elegant sound, ditto Kimble and Campanella. I suppose if I had to pick one of the above, it would be Gilchrist, but any difference is extremely minor.

Another exceptional maker is Brian Dean. I had an opportunity to play the "avante-garde" mandolin that he created for Joe Brent (see the blog on the front page of the cafe) briefly. You can make a huge, extraordinarily beautiful sound (and amount of sound) with it. Fit and finish are museum quality. I found it easy to play but no question the scale length (14.25) is longish (which partly accounts for the power). Not for everyone.

**Dlchap** · May-24-2012, 2:12pm

I have played several Dudenbostel's in the past couple of years and I must say that the man has a great ear for voicing mandolins! Very balanced tone across the fingerboard on everyone I've played. There are some differences in tone between the different woods used to construct the tops but all have a distinct sound with volume and pressents.
I have not played an Ellis sorry...

Lee

**JeffD** · May-24-2012, 4:27pm

Originally Posted by greg_tsam

Blows my mind really but in the end it's slight differences that make the difference and a lot of that depends on your talent level, ear training and budget.

There is another aspect, which is what you want the instrument to do. Some folks want an instrument maximized for chop. Others want it maximized for a certain tone, some want a very focused sound, others not. Everyone is different.

**pefjr** · May-24-2012, 4:37pm

I better unsubscribe this thread, because every new post will pull me back in here and force me to listen to Ben on that Ellis again. Love Ben and Jenn's version of, got it this time, "Late Evening Blues". BOSS!

**Martin Stevens** · May-26-2012, 11:52pm

Originally Posted by doc holiday

bdm0509. A worthy search for sure. There's already a huge list lined up for you. While I haven't played a Dude, I have both a Heiden & an Ellis. I certainly don't think you'd be disappointed. I got to sit in front of two different Ellis F's, played by Tom Rozum & Sharon Gilchrist...soundwise they were both magnificent. Later, I heard another Ellis played by Martin Stephens, when he was with Dan Crary. Again a terrific sounding instruments played by a very talented player. As mentioned, at the upper end of the food chain, so much is preference. You should give Tom E a call in Austin & chat with him. Good luck on what I'm sure will be a very rewarding voyage.

Thank you for the kind words! I love my Ellis and I've played a couple Dude's as well.. can't go wrong wither either, but I'd lean towards an Ellis.

**mtucker** · May-28-2012, 9:32am

Originally Posted by bdm0509

I realize that their prices are a large bit difference (Dude's are actually about twice as much), but all the same. I've been drawn to both because I'm not primarily a blue grasser. I don't mind ponying up the cash for a Dude--

too funny....

greatest 'first post', evah!

**Cheryl Watson** · May-28-2012, 9:47am

Well, then, YES, pony up the cash for the Dude because they are awesome! I'd own one if I could swing it.

**Danny Clark** · May-28-2012, 9:57am

both are great mandolins,its all about what you like to hear at that price point ,not that one is not going to be good,they both will be great,i would throw Red Diamond on the shopping list also
Danny

**mtucker** · May-28-2012, 9:59am

Originally Posted by cwtwang

I'd own one.

Please follow these instructions:

Lagos, Nigeria.
Attention: cwtwang

Dear Madame,

Confidential Business Proposal

Having consulted with my colleagues and based on the information gathered from the Nigerian Chambers Of Commerce And Industry, I have the privilege to request your assistance to transfer the sum of $47,500,000.00 (forty seven million, five hundred thousand United States dollars) into your accounts. The above sum resulted from an over-invoiced contract, executed, commissioned and paid for about five years (5) ago by a foreign contractor. This action was however intentional and since then the fund has been in a suspense account at The Central Bank Of Nigeria Apex Bank.

We are now ready to transfer the fund overseas and that is where you come in. It is important to inform you that as civil servants, we are forbidden to operate a foreign account; that is why we require your assistance. The total sum will be shared as follows: 70% for us, 25% for you and 5% for local and international expenses incidental to the transfer.

The transfer is risk free on both sides. I am an accountant with the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). If you find this proposal acceptable, we shall require the following documents:

(a) your banker's name, telephone, account and fax numbers.

(b) your private telephone and fax numbers —for confidentiality and easy communication.

(c) your letter-headed paper stamped and signed.

Alternatively we will furnish you with the text of what to type into your letter-headed paper, along with a breakdown explaining, comprehensively what we require of you. The business will take us thirty (30) working days to accomplish.

Please reply urgently.

Best regards

Howgul Abul Arhu

**Bob Bronow** · May-28-2012, 10:12am

OK, as long as we're talking about non-traditional luthiers, I tip my hat to Steve Sorensen.

Ted Eschliman compared the tone of his two-point "Sprite" to a Nugget.
http://jazzmando.com/sorensen_sprite_mandolin.shtml

Here's a thread on the mandolin he just built for me:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ndolin-Journey

Plus, you could take the money you save and buy a car!

**Dan Margolis** · May-28-2012, 10:28am

Y'know, when I almost sold my Collings A several weeks ago in favor of my Ellis A I received an email from a well-known small dealer. He seemed surprised that I was selling my Collings. He told me that he had had about a dozen Ellis mandolins come through his shop and that, while they were beautifully built, the sound didn't move him much. Since I own an Ellis I didn't love hearing this, especially since this guy has probably played and lived with hundreds of fine instruments, which I haven't.

It just goes to show that opinions can be across the board and fly in the face of conventional wisdom. My Ellis (haven't played a Dude) is a very fine instrument. Is it the best possible A style that I could have bought for the money? Maybe not, but it's durn good, and I did not have the time and inclination to try a hundred instruments.

Were I to do it again I would follow the advice of others in this thread who recommended trying a bunch. Heck, if you're thinking of really expensice instruments it might be worth your time and money to fly to a store with a lot of mandolins to try. For example, I've been to Fiddler's Green in Austin (NFI) and they have a really good selection. Good luck!

**mtucker** · May-28-2012, 11:36am

ohh,,, i forgot to mention....No Financial Interest

Originally Posted by mtucker

Lagos, Nigeria.
Attention: cwtwang

Dear Madame,

Confidential Business Proposal

Having consulted with my colleagues and based on the information gathered from the Nigerian Chambers Of Commerce And Industry, I have the privilege to request your assistance to transfer the sum of $47,500,000.00 (forty seven million, five hundred thousand United States dollars) into your accounts. The above sum resulted from an over-invoiced contract, executed, commissioned and paid for about five years (5) ago by a foreign contractor. This action was however intentional and since then the fund has been in a suspense account at The Central Bank Of Nigeria Apex Bank.

We are now ready to transfer the fund overseas and that is where you come in. It is important to inform you that as civil servants, we are forbidden to operate a foreign account; that is why we require your assistance. The total sum will be shared as follows: 70% for us, 25% for you and 5% for local and international expenses incidental to the transfer.

The transfer is risk free on both sides. I am an accountant with the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). If you find this proposal acceptable, we shall require the following documents:

(a) your banker's name, telephone, account and fax numbers.

(b) your private telephone and fax numbers —for confidentiality and easy communication.

(c) your letter-headed paper stamped and signed.

Alternatively we will furnish you with the text of what to type into your letter-headed paper, along with a breakdown explaining, comprehensively what we require of you. The business will take us thirty (30) working days to accomplish.

Please reply urgently.

Best regards

Howgul Abul Arhu

**doc holiday** · May-28-2012, 9:12pm

Martin, sorry for misspelling your name. Love your playing!

**Martin Stevens** · May-29-2012, 3:53pm

Originally Posted by Dan Margolis

Y'know, when I almost sold my Collings A several weeks ago in favor of my Ellis A I received an email from a well-known small dealer. He seemed surprised that I was selling my Collings. He told me that he had had about a dozen Ellis mandolins come through his shop and that, while they were beautifully built, the sound didn't move him much. Since I own an Ellis I didn't love hearing this, especially since this guy has probably played and lived with hundreds of fine instruments, which I haven't.

It just goes to show that opinions can be across the board and fly in the face of conventional wisdom. My Ellis (haven't played a Dude) is a very fine instrument. Is it the best possible A style that I could have bought for the money? Maybe not, but it's durn good, and I did not have the time and inclination to try a hundred instruments.

Were I to do it again I would follow the advice of others in this thread who recommended trying a bunch. Heck, if you're thinking of really expensice instruments it might be worth your time and money to fly to a store with a lot of mandolins to try. For example, I've been to Fiddler's Green in Austin (NFI) and they have a really good selection. Good luck!

People have different opinions.. Don't let that change yours or get you thinking negatively about your mando. I know some people who think Collings are better than Ellis. I know a lot who think otherwise. Neither group is wrong.

I personally have played real Loars, Dudes, Nuggets, Gilchrists, Heidens, etc etc etc and the Ellis stacks up as good or better than all of them, in my opinion.

**pjlama** · May-29-2012, 4:49pm

At a point there is no better just different and once you get close to 10k and above it's all about difference. If money were no object Dude, Gil, Nugget, Monte seem to be the big boys (20k club). A lot of folks and rightly so feel that Heiden, Ellis, Collings, Duff, Red Diamond, Kimble, Brock, Altman, etc (8-16k club) are just as good. At the end of the day we're all different and so are the instruments, you could be happy with any number of makes. With your budget a quick flight to Nashville will help you make a good decision. Lynn is somewhere in TN I believe and there's all the highend stuff around at Gruhns, Cotten, etc...

PS this is easy to say for me because I've bought lots of hignend stuff and never gone to try it first. I should have but family and business prevent me from traveling unless absolutely needed. I wish I was able to fly and try, it would have saved me tons of dough.

**red7flag** · May-30-2012, 10:27am

pJ is right on. Every year I go to IBMA and go from table to table trying every mando I can get my hands on. Living near Nashville, I get the pleasure of seeing the good folks at Gruhns and Cottens. The always seem to have plenty of top tear instruments. One of these trips resulted in me bringing an Ellis F5 home. I had no intention of buying an instrument. So beware. At that level, it is not whether the instrument has wonderful playability, tone and workmanship. At that level, does a particular instrument speak to you, can you speak through it and is there a love affair between you and the instrument. This sometimes comes from the less expensive and/or less recommended brand. One danger for me is when I get a recommendation from my friends here in the Cafe about an instrument at a local Nashville shop. You guys rarely steer me wrong. Best for me to leave my credit card and check book at home.