Ellis and Dudenbostel mandolins: Hands-on impressions?

[bdm0509]

Hi all-

First time poster, all that good stuff :-)

I'm looking into moving into a really nice handbuilt mandolin, and the two builders most on my radar are Dudenbostel and Ellis. I realize that their prices are a large bit difference (Dude's are actually about twice as much), but all the same.

I've been drawn to both because I'm not primarily a bluegrasser; I play more modern music, and so there's a sweetness and richness that I much prefer to a full-blown, in your face, edge sound. I'd get the Dude in Engelmann, and I'm not sure if you can get an Ellis in engelmann, but I've heard that his tone is much sweeter, as well.

Thoughts, opinions, and advice welcome. It's obviously hard to get both in your hands and A/B them, at least for me, but I'd love thoughts from any of you out there.

I don't mind ponying up the cash for a Dude--it would be my one mandolin, and I'd play it for decades--if it's the right choice. But on the verge of a purchase that large, it's worth asking, as I hear raves about Ellis mandos, too.

Personal experiences welcome...

Thanks much,
bdm0509

[adizz]

I've played a few Ellis mandolins, one was great, one was disappointing and the other couple were really good. I would suggest looking at Michael Heiden's mandolins if you want a great sweet sounding mandolin. I would also suggest Jason Harshbarger's mandolins. He's out of cincinnati and offers a great warm sounding varnished mandolin for about a third of the price of an ellis. Will Kimble offers a great 2 point mandolin that tends to be a little more warm on the low end with the great high end you'd expect from a "loar" type of mandolin. I've never played a Dude, I'm sure they're great but at his price point I can't imagine it being 2 or 3 or 10 times better than the above mentioned builders.

[JEStanek]

I've never played either so accept this advice for what you paid for it. Look into Phoenix too. If you're not a trad grasser, you can look outside the box. In that top tier of builders, I don't think you'll get a bad mandolin from any of them, just some that may not suit your taste. Also, before you drop that much coin on any builder, play some examples to be more educated/sure of your choice.

Jamie

[pjlama]

PM, Trevor at TAMCO in the UK. He's got experience with both. So does Robb Brophy from Elkhorn mandolins, he builds a fine mandolin too but has owned both.

[Jim M.]

You might check out the Gilchrist F5C too. Listen to Evan Marshall's playing http://www.solomandolin.com/news.php for a great sample. There's a used one at Carmel Music currently.

[blauserk]

You might check out the Gilchrist F5C too.

The one at Carmel is under $17k, which is about as cheap as you can get a Gil Model 5 that hasn't been run over by a truck.

Also, be advised that Dudenbostel makes 1-A mandolins with "junior" level trim for less than half the cost of his fully decked out F-5, and a few thou less than an Ellis F-5. The Dude will also make a 1-F (F-5 with "junior" level trim) too if you want the scroll.

[mando Nick]

Another mandolin maker to suggest is Bob Altman. I would imagine his instruments sound pretty good too.
Nick

[pjlama]

Well I typically avoid straying from the mandolins a person's looking to compare but since we're all piling on I love my Heiden.

[f5loar]

Just because you narrowed it down to two does not me we will let you do that as quickly. Way too many great luthiers out there to just narrow it down to two. Since you seem to already have MAS I'd suggest getting the Ellis now and put a down payment on the Dude for a few years down the road when MAS strikes again. Both are great F5 style handmade mandolins and both deserve to be yours. After you get the Dude then look into a custom Gil with a down payment on a Nugget and then go ahead to start making payments on your Montelone Radio Flyer for the next decade.

[Glassweb]

The Kimble is a perfect choice for you... modern, jazz, grass, whatever - the Kimble does it all so beautifully. And yes, his 2-point mandolin is, for the price, (less than 6K) a RIDICULOUS amount of mandolin. You just can't do better. NFI... I just happen to play and own a Kimble 2-point mandola.

[Ivan Kelsall]

f5loar has it !.There are a great number of builders who make totally incredible mandolins,not least John Hamlett.http://youtu.be/49joX0fGwbE Maybe not the finest sound quality in the world,but a taste of the wonderful 'openness of John's instruments.
You should look at the Heiden / Kimble / Mowry /Nugget / Gilchrist & many other makes,before you go ahead & buy,
Ivan

[trevor]

bdm0509, where are you based?

My best advice would be to try before you buy.

[red7flag]

I have not played a Dude. Would love to. When I bought my Ellis, I found out that Cotten Music here in Nashville had both an Altman and a Kimble, both F5 models and both used in excellent shape. All three where very comparable as far as tone, playability and workmanship. Personally, there was a particular sound that I have also heard iin other Ellises that rings a bell with me. At that level, it is more about personal preference. There has been significant changes in the tone of newer Altmans and Kimbles.

[yankees1]

bdm0509, where are you based?

My best advice would be to try before you buy.

Ditto !

[jmagill]

If you have the budget to consider a Dudenbostel, then the other elite builders in that rarified price range (Gilchrist, Nugget, Monteleone, etc.) deserve consideration also.

It sounds like you're looking for an instrument with a sound other than that of the classic Gibson F-5. I can sympathize. It was my search for something a bit different that caused me to commission this Grand Artist model #44 from John Monteleone in 1980:



This was a great mandolin with its own distinctive sound, but I was still looking for something that had, as you put it, "a sweetness and richness (rather than) a full-blown, in your face, edge sound," so when I was visiting John's shop one day, I saw this one:



played it a bit, and bought it on the spot. It was my favorite of all the mandolins I've owned and had a sound just as you've described.

It's basically the same as #44 except for the oval sound hole. It's a 'hybrid,' meaning that unlike the classic oval-holes that meet the body at the 12th fret, this one meets it at the 15th fret, like a standard f-hole, which shifts the bridge position down and requires some other modifications of the design geometry, all of which can affect the sound.

In the hands of a great builder, a hybrid's voice can be a best-of-both-worlds, with punch, projection and volume similar to an f-hole, as well as the warmth and sweet, rich timbre of an oval-hole. I'm having another such hybrid being built for me now.

You say you play a variety of music, and don't explicitly mention that you're looking for an f-hole, so unless that's a 'given' for you, you might want to consider a hybrid oval-hole from a top builder as another option.

In addition, if you have the resources for one of these high-end instruments, depending on where you live, you might want to visit the builders' workshops, or locate examples built by them at a store or with an owner who'd be happy to show off his mandolin, then travel there to try them out. Compared to the instrument's price, the travel expenses would be a relatively small investment, and well worth the peace of mind of finding a builder who really knows how to deliver the sound you're looking for.

Besides, a road trip like that, to play some of the finest mandolins around, would have to be a total gas.

[doc holiday]

bdm0509. A worthy search for sure. There's already a huge list lined up for you. While I haven't played a Dude, I have both a Heiden & an Ellis. I certainly don't think you'd be disappointed. I got to sit in front of two different Ellis F's, played by Tom Rozum & Sharon Gilchrist...soundwise they were both magnificent. Later, I heard another Ellis played by Martin Stephens, when he was with Dan Crary. Again a terrific sounding instruments played by a very talented player. As mentioned, at the upper end of the food chain, so much is preference. You should give Tom E a call in Austin & chat with him. Good luck on what I'm sure will be a very rewarding voyage.

[lukmanohnz]

I've played a few Ellis mandolins, one was great, one was disappointing and the other couple were really good.

The closest I've come to a Dude is my peg winder, but I've played one Ellis F-5 and while it was a gorgeous instrument and played like butter, the tone didn't thrill me. But that's all personal taste. A classmate had a Collings A that I played right after the Ellis, and I would have traded her straight across for my Capek F if she'd been interested. I'm in the try-before-you-buy camp.

[JeffD]

I don't mind ponying up the cash for a Dude--it would be my one mandolin, and I'd play it for decades--if it's the right choice.

Here is the thing. The experience if getting a mandolin is wonderful. A lot like falling in love. Later on, when "the honeymoon is over", you will play and enjoy your instrument, but perhaps long for that first endorphan rush. And you may well say to your self: "Am I never to feel that again? Never?"

It is my personal theory that this underlies most MAS.

So while you have some amazing choices there in front of you, there is a very excellent chance it will not be your last mandolin purchase.

If you do accept that, then you have a weapon against "paralysis by analysis", the syndrome whereby you agonize over the smallest of things under the assumption that this is all you will ever get to play, and thereby delay the purchase and waste a lot of time you could be playing wonderful music.

Either of the makers you have indicated will make you more than happy, for the rest of your life, and neither of them will get you a mandolin so splendiferous that you won't want another several years down the road.

But on the verge of a purchase that large, it's worth asking, as I hear raves about Ellis mandos, too.

If it is only raves that put a maker on your short list, your list is too short.

[sgarrity]

Before I offered any advice I'd ask you what led you to those two choices if you haven't played either one yet?

[John Duncan]

Based on my just my hands on experiences I would go with the Ellis. If you are gonna stray from those two options then I would go for a Kimble!

[chubakkah]

I think you've got to put Lawrence Smart's name in this mix as well...just superb instruments.

[doc holiday]

....Anymore "Hands on Impressions" of Dudes & Ellis.....on a slow sunday morning ?

[sgarrity]

This has induced a case of Ellis-MAS:




And here's Ben playing his personal Ellis F5 #200:

[greg_tsam]

If it is only raves that put a maker on your short list, your list is too short.

Heck, when I got my Breedlove I posted a rave of it on here and the supporters were kind and the dissenters were even kinder by not telling me how much better their $20K whatevers were. Several years later I'm still happy with my BL and still get compliments on it but understand the minutia involved in mandolin voicings much better now than then. Blows my mind really but in the end it's slight differences that make the difference and a lot of that depends on your talent level, ear training and budget.

[lonestar_shawn]

I played that mandolin a few weeks ago and then again yesterday. It's really good. However, I think the sunburst Ellis A they have right now is even better.