Hide Glue

**belbein** · May-15-2012, 9:02am

Everyone in the world but me probably already knew this, but here's a video on hide glue from another website.

http://woodtreks.com/animal-protein-...-history/1549/

Given my history of gluing up problems, this was quite a revelation. I thought it was supposed to be the consistency of water. Apparently it's supposed to be like syrup.

Imagine that. Gluing the back on to my mandolin this morning, it was really quite sticky. What a funny thing for glue to be!

**kkmm** · May-15-2012, 12:20pm

Using hide glue requires extremely quick clamping before the glue gels up.
How did you clamp the back to the body quickly ?
I use hide glue for other places (scarf joint, neck body joint, etcc) , but for glueing top and back, I just use Titebond (original formula) as it takes me about 2 to 4 mins to clamp them properly.

**Max Girouard** · May-15-2012, 12:40pm

I use a radiant heat lamp to warm up all my parts. I also leave it on while clamping, being careful not to let me hand get close to the lamp.

**belbein** · May-15-2012, 2:35pm

How did I do it quickly? I don't know. It was certainly starting to set up before I was finished. But I had everything ready to go before I started. I also pre-heated the wood with a heat gun. Maybe it didn't seem that quick to me because I'm used to working with epoxy, and that stuff is like lighning.

Oh ... and I didn't use Titebond I because I haven't been able to find any that's fresh. All the stuff in the stores is about as old as my stuff at home.

**James Sanford** · May-15-2012, 8:45pm

Thanks for the link. I am just starting to use hide glue and this video was very helpful in understanding some practical checks as to glue quality and keeping the glue in condition to perform correctly.

**victor seal** · May-16-2012, 6:07am

I have never built a mando but have built a bunch of fiddles. The process that I use for gluing the top/back on is to use spool clamps. Clamp the plate to the ribs. Remove 3 or 4 clamps and use a slim painters spatula to spread glue into the joint and reclamp. Work your way all around. This is the technique that violin family builders use. It would work on a mando just as well and spool clamps are easy to make. Pals, Vic.

**Dobe** · May-16-2012, 10:49am

[QUOTE=kkmm;1051865]Using hide glue requires extremely quick clamping before the glue gels up.
How did you clamp the back to the body quickly ?

'Extremely' is a rather arbitrary term - I like 2 sets of hands - be absolutely ready - dry hump 1st - heat gun one piece while applying glue to the other (again 2 sets 'of hands) - I like my glue temp on the high end - (160 ish) - a warm shop doesn't hurt - I do like the spool clamps, but usually end up using all sorts as I only have 20- and most important, don't sweat it, it will work !

**belbein** · May-16-2012, 12:24pm

Well, "dry hump" or not (hmmm...) I am sweating it, because I used much thinner consistency hide glue for the neck. so now that I've finally glued the back on which nice, thick mucusy hide glue and it's cured for 24 hours, now finally I'm wondering if I should do something to test that bond before I spend all the time finishing the beast.

Thoughts?

**kkmm** · May-16-2012, 12:31pm

'Extremely' is a rather arbitrary term

I do agree that "extremely' is kind of vague. My personal experience is hide glue gels within 30 seconds. If I can't put on the clamp that fast, I got to use TiteBond. For some glueing parts, I can get clamping done in about 15 seconds and I use HHG for this.
I guess, I have to make some sort of jigs to allow for fast clamping on any glue job (heating up the wood first with a hair dryer is already part of my routine, may be it's not hot enough).

Clamp the plate to the ribs. Remove 3 or 4 clamps and use a slim painters spatula to spread glue into the joint and reclamp

This is quite a good technique for me to learn.

**Dobe** · May-16-2012, 3:32pm

[QUOTE=kkmm;1052183]I do agree that "extremely' is kind of vague. My personal experience is hide glue gels within 30 seconds. If I can't put on the clamp that fast, I got to use TiteBond. For some glueing parts, I can get clamping done in about 15 seconds

How would a Cello or Bass be clamped up in 30 sec ? (Maybe 4 sets of hands ?)

"use a slim painters spatula to spread glue into the joint and reclamp"

That sounds good ! Key term probably missing there is 'hot' spatula.

**Dobe** · May-16-2012, 3:41pm

[QUOTE=belbein;1052178]Well, "dry hump" or not (hmmm...)
I won't even go into the highly technical luthiers term 'spooge' :0

"I am sweating it, because I used much thinner consistency hide glue for the neck. so now that I've finally glued the back on which nice, thick mucusy hide glue"
Water 2- to crystals 1 - ratio , or so? Should be pretty liquid-ish. Mucousy sounds like it could have been on the cool end for temp.

"do something to test that bond before I spend all the time finishing the beast"

String her up for a few weeks !

**victor seal** · May-16-2012, 4:10pm

Yes, I did forget to mention that I keep a pan of water on a single burner electric hot plate. I keep it just short of boiling. I use two spatulas and alternate them. I also keep a small towel to quickly wipe off excess hot water before going into the glue pot. If you like the idea of using HHG, I would recommend that you try this method. You will never go back. Pals, Vic.

**victor seal** · May-16-2012, 4:14pm

P.S.- I built a double bass and glued the plates up using the spool clamp method. I can't thing of another method that you could possibly use on something that large. Any type of glue known to man would begin to set up before you could get that giant clamped up. Pals, Vic.

**belbein** · May-16-2012, 5:11pm

I'm sure I should know what HHG is, but ...?

**victor seal** · May-16-2012, 8:03pm

HHG=Hot Hide Glue. It comes in a granular form and is mixed with water and heated to appx. 145-155 degrees F. It forms a very tight bond and is easily taken back apart with heat. The only drawback that I have encountered is it's ability to set up quickly. It sets up so fast that by the time you spread it on a rib assembly and get it clamped, it has already started to gel. That is why spool clamps solve that particular problem. It is also easy to clean up with warm water. Try it, you'll like it. Pals, Vic.

**belbein** · May-16-2012, 9:38pm

OK, that's what I used.

Meanwhile, I'm still working and still puzzling out these problems. So, today when I went down to check the glue-up of the back, if was glued really nicely ... but I found that I STILL had a space under the neck butt--of the same size and width as before I started trying to fix it with a shim & sanding. So I'm thinking there must be something structural with the back, maybe, causing it to pull away from the sides right under the neck butt. Is it possible that my large (larger than a silver dollar) inlay caused the back to sort of curl up?

In addition: I thought HHG wasn't supposed to give me "squeeze out." This did. Not copious quantities, but some. Does that mean that it was too cold when I used it, or the wood was too cold, or the stars weren't alighned, or something?

**Bill Snyder** · May-16-2012, 9:41pm

The extra glue has to go somewhere so when you apply clamps it squeezes out of the joint just like any other glue will.

**kkmm** · May-17-2012, 11:04am

The good part about HHG that squeezed out is it will become a transparent film layer that could be easily broken and pried off with finger nails. I spoke only from one build experience using HHG. HHG is very clean.
When I can't clamp the parts in time before it gels, I simply took the parts apart, clean the joint with hot water and re-do again.