recording mic

[red7flag]

I am currently recording a cd in my home studio. I have been borrowing an older AKG mic with positive results. But this mic may not be available for the whole project. I am requesting a recommendation for a mic that would be used to record mandolin, OM, fiddle, banjo and guitar on single tracks and which use a standard 1/8th inch jack. Music: grass, Celtic, gypsy. Thank you in advance. Recording is analog to digital (PC).

[John Kelly]

Since you mention the standard 1/8th inch jack, I am assuming that you are not using phantom power in your recording set-up? if this is the case then you could well go with the industry standard Shure SM57 for the instruments you are recording.

[Spruce]

...and which use a standard 1/8th inch jack.

Dump this ASAP....
Then look for your mics...

[almeriastrings]

Agreed. Are you going into a standard PC "soundcard?? If so, you need to dump that too - and look instead at a real interface. Either USB or (preferably) firewire with decent preamps, XLR sockets, and phantom power. You do not need to pay a fortune these days if you only need a couple of channels.... but it will blow any standard issue "soundcard" out of the water and greatly increase your mic (and DI) options.

[red7flag]

The mics and plug in instruments are plugged into a sound board >>> analog to digital converter >>> PC. Have a unemployed sound engineer doing a great job with the mix.

[stonefingers]

To answer the OP without wandering off on the "it would be better" track, I think the Shure SM57 (as already recommended) would be good. I am also a big fan of the MXL 991 for doing this type of "budget" recording of instruments.

[Spruce]

The mics and plug in instruments are plugged into a sound board >>> analog to digital converter >>> PC.

It's a board with an onboard digital converter, and it's terminating in a 1/8" jack??
Something's amiss with this picture....

Have a unemployed sound engineer doing a great job with the mix.

OK, I get it...

[Jim Garber]

I don't know about 1/8" plugs(!) but I do like the sound and balance that Dave Mold (Old Sausage) gets on his videos. Check out his specs for equipment on his blog.

[keith.rogers]

The mics and plug in instruments are plugged into a sound board >>> analog to digital converter >>> PC. ....

Details on the "sound board" would be helpful. If it's any kind of mixer at all, it would have XLR inputs. Even the SM57 that is mentioned by others here has XLR (i.e., balanced, low impedance) connectors.

You could do worse than the SM57, but I think most people would look for a small condenser mic for recording acoustic instruments. I've got a couple of Audio-Technica mics that both work: AT4051a and ATM450. They require phantom power, though. (Most mixers do supply this.)

(If you decide on a Shure SM57, there are a lot of counterfeits out there now. I wouldn't be tempted to buy anything used that costs less than $100 for a new one, unless I knew the person selling it, and they had the original receipt.)

P.S. You could search this forum for a lot of suggestions!
P.P.S. If you are really stuck with needing a 1/8", is the sound board expecting mono or stereo? I have used one of these with camcorders for about 15 years to get better sound (plus have the mic isolated from camera noises).

[MacStevenXIII]

Blue Yeti usb mic. It's amazing. I've been using it to record songs in GarageBand for freelance video composition work.
I recorded this last night,

http://soundcloud.com/charlie-macsteven/number-3

[Pete Martin]

Shure KSM 44 is a very good, natural sounding mic. Look for a good used one on Ebay.

[almeriastrings]

I'd like to see someone plug a KSM-44 into an unbalanced 1/8" jack socket..... won't have much luck with a USB mic either...

[MacStevenXIII]

I'd like to see someone plug a KSM-44 into an unbalanced 1/8" jack socket..... won't have much luck with a USB mic either...

True the OP requested 1/8" recommendations but if using a PC a USB port is an option.

[red7flag]

Sorry, mic uses three prong cable to a Mackie 802-vlz3. I did buy a Shure SM57.

[resophil]

I am currently recording a cd in my home studio. I have been borrowing an older AKG mic with positive results. But this mic may not be available for the whole project. I am requesting a recommendation for a mic that would be used to record mandolin, OM, fiddle, banjo and guitar on single tracks and which use a standard 1/8th inch jack. Music: grass, Celtic, gypsy. Thank you in advance. Recording is analog to digital (PC).

This is a prime example of how to ask a question badly!

1) A microphone can be used to record anything! " mandolin, OM, fiddle, banjo and guitar" ( I assume that OM and guitar are the same thing....?) Microphones are not necessarily instrument-specific, but do have certain response characteristics. Just to list off a bunch of instruments is not necessarily helpful in selecting a microphone. It would be better to differentiate between acoustic instruments or electric amplifiers, for instance, or vocals rather than brass instruments, as another example.

2) The number of tracks that an instrument is recorded to is irrelevant! The microphone just doesn't care!

3) Equally, what does it matter what kind of music goes through a microphone? The microphone doesn't know!

4) The size of analog input jack in most consumer sound cards is 1/8". If the recording chain is as stated, "sound board >>> analog to digital converter >>> PC", this is a red herring! An analog/digital converter does not feed it's output into a 1/8" jack on a PC soundcard! And no microphone of the type we're referencing here has a 1/8" output!

5) All recording of acoustic instruments to a DAW on a PC is analog to digital! Can't be any other way!

[almeriastrings]

Exactly...

A basic book on home studio setup and recording techniques would be a good place for the OP to start.

[Al Bergstein]

Exactly...

A basic book on home studio setup and recording techniques would be a good place for the OP to start.

Amen to that.

I have used a Sennheiser evolution 914.
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/condens...ion-900_500206

That's what the studio that records the top acoustic players in the pacific nw was using last time i checked. One aimed to the top f and one to the bottom. But i'm sure there are other options. It sounds great, and you can then worry more on the rest ofthe chain. Learn more about balanced and unbalanced lines. Maybe get phil rose's books which are aimed at video sound recording, but are fabulous primers.

[Ben Milne]

This is a prime example of how to ask a question badly!

With fairness to the OP, this is a little harsh. The only real issue with the post was getting the kind of connector wrong.
Sure, parts of the post required clarification but that is the nature of "newb" style posts. The information was enough for us to get an idea of what the OP is trying to achieve at the same as giving indications that further advice might be in order.

1) A microphone can be used to record anything! " mandolin, OM, fiddle, banjo and guitar" ( I assume that OM and guitar are the same thing....?) Microphones are not necessarily instrument-specific, but do have certain response characteristics. Just to list off a bunch of instruments is not necessarily helpful in selecting a microphone. It would be better to differentiate between acoustic instruments or electric amplifiers, for instance, or vocals rather than brass instruments, as another example.

The OP gave specific examples of what instruments they are planning to record. This is certainly helpful asking for advice on microphone selection.

2) The number of tracks that an instrument is recorded to is irrelevant! The microphone just doesn't care!

The information that each instrument would be recorded separately is also helpful in this regard, as mic selection might change if multiple instruments were being tracked simultaneously.

3) Equally, what does it matter what kind of music goes through a microphone? The microphone doesn't know!

If recording a Heavy metal band, I would reach for completely different mics than if i were recording a Bluegrass band.

4) The size of analog input jack in most consumer sound cards is 1/8". If the recording chain is as stated, "sound board >>> analog to digital converter >>> PC", this is a red herring! An analog/digital converter does not feed it's output into a 1/8" jack on a PC soundcard! And no microphone of the type we're referencing here has a 1/8" output!

Sure but the OP has already explained this was a misnomer.

5) All recording of acoustic instruments to a DAW on a PC is analog to digital! Can't be any other way!

Yep, but more information is always better than vague unspecific questions.

To the OP:
The three prong connector on your SM57 is an XLR. Well done on your mic choice, you have a very durable mic, which is a proven all-rounder in many situations. Perfect for what you are trying to achieve and a mic that you will have for many years to come. Even when you upgrade, you will inevitabely still find uses for it.

I second the idea of getting a Recording techniques book.
Personally, I would suggest the following: Write and record your album using what you have. Get the best result you can with what you have available, following the techniques that will be outlined in a book on the subject of modern recording. Once you have all your parts written, rehearsed, recorded and you are happy, take your songs to a local recording house. Your recordings will give the in-house producer/engineer an idea of what you are after and how to approach recording your album.
By utilising the services of a professional, you will have access to an ideal recording environment, world class recording equipment and the technical side of things will be looked after leaving all of your attention to laying down the best performances. The time you have taken to develop and record your songs will ensure you are well rehearsed and not wasting time and money.
Good luck with your Album and Have fun recording!

[wildpikr]

Exactly...

A basic book on home studio setup and recording techniques would be a good place for the OP to start.

Can anyone recommend a home studio setup book?

[Toni Schula]

If you really want to go with recording into a PC sound card (as you mentioned the 1/8" connectors), and if you want to use a reasonably priced condensor mic of reasonable quality, you might go for an AKG C1000S. This can be used with phantom power or with an internal 9V battery. Adapters between XLR and 1/8" connectors are needed then.
This mic will for sure not be the bottle neck quality wise in this setup and can also be used on stage as well.
As mentioned above there are quality mics with USB connectors in the market, which are suitable for PC recording. I don't know any with additional XLR for other use cases. Just in case you want a flexible solution.

I am biased re garding AKG, as the company is just around the corner ;-)

[almeriastrings]

In my opinion, one of the very best books out there now on the topic is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Producers-...4758968&sr=8-1

On the just-as-critical mixing aspect, this one is also superb:

http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Secrets...ref=pd_sim_b_1

This one is a very good general read too, with a lot of interesting stuff you may not find elsewhere:

http://www.amazon.com/Studio-Secrets...der_1435455053

A few $ on these books can save you a lot of wasted time and money!

[wildpikr]

Gracias almeriastrings.

[resophil]

Sure, parts of the post required clarification but that is the nature of "newb" style posts. The information was enough for us to get an idea of what the OP is trying to achieve at the same as giving indications that further advice might be in order.

The OP is hardly a "newb", as you put it! He's got way over 2 thousand posts, and if he's proficient enough to be recording an album, you gotta think he knows his stuff...

So let's look at the information he DID give us. He didn't say he was recording a band, so how is one to know, from his wording, if it's a solo project and he is playing each instrument, one at a time, to single ??? track (i.e., multitracking...) or if it's indeed a band and they are recording everyone live from the floor at the same time...? If he indeed has "an unemployed sound engineer" on the job, it won't be to a single track. It'll be a typical stereo recording! Aside from this, I know of NO recording engineer who records just a single instrument microphone to a stereo track in modern digital recording. What would be the point? It just uses twice as much disk space as necessary! If the stereo field needs to be widened, it can easily be converted to stereo (actually dual mono) later at mixdown!

If you used a different mic to record a heavy metal band as opposed to a bluegrass band, would you do it because it was heavy metal music, or because it was typically louder and you were recording the sound of amplifiers and drums instead of acoustic instruments? Do you think the famous "Pickin' On" series of CDs was recorded with different mics, just because they were using acoustic bluegrass instruments to record Led Zeppelin? It's not the genre of music that matters, it's the musical source, when it comes to microphones.

He probably got the lowest level of advice that he could possibly get. I certainly wouldn't go about recording an album of acoustic music with a Shure 57 mic in this day and age. Even you intimate that he'll be "upgrading" at some time. To me, this means that he didn't get the best mic for the job, in your opinion.

A Shure 57 is a good mic and everybody has use for one, usually for live performance. But it isn't going to be useful if he's expecting to record a whole band at once.

A simple question about recording acoustic instruments, and a price range would have been far more useful, IMO.

[Ben Milne]

The OP is hardly a "newb", as you put it! He's got way over 2 thousand posts, and if he's proficient enough to be recording an album, you gotta think he knows his stuff...

The Newb comment is regarding the recording experience of the OP, not his forum standing. I'm well aware how long Red7flag has been a cafe member for and can easily see his forum post count. I have appreciated Tony's input on numerous previous discussions, and I can see from his signature line that when it come to the forum's title topic of mandolins, he indeed knows his stuff.
It was the same comments you highlighted as a bad way to ask a question that I see as indicators that the OP is rather new to recording and could do with some insights.

So let's look at the information he DID give us. He didn't say he was recording a band, so how is one to know, from his wording, if it's a solo project and he is playing each instrument, one at a time, to single ??? track (i.e., multitracking...) or if it's indeed a band and they are recording everyone live from the floor at the same time...?

The information given was that instruments were being recorded using a single mic to record various instruments to single tracks. To me using a single mic to record multiple instruments to multiple tracks would imply overdubbing. He even gave specifics on what the instruments were (which strangely didn't interest you).
You're the only one to bring up things like electric amplifiers and brass instruments (though his SM57 will be just fine here too).

If he indeed has "an unemployed sound engineer" on the job, it won't be to a single track. It'll be a typical stereo recording! Aside from this, I know of NO recording engineer who records one microphone to a stereo track in modern digital recording. What would be the point? It just uses twice as much disk space as necessary! If the stereo field needs to be widened, it can easily be converted to stereo later!

You seem to be speculating and I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see the relevance of the tangent you've gone off on.

If you used a different mic to record a heavy metal band as opposed to a bluegrass band, would you do it because it was heavy metal music, or because it was typically louder and you were recording the sound of amplifiers and drums instead of acoustic instruments? Do you think the famous "Pickin' On" series of CDs was recorded with different mics, just because they were using acoustic bluegrass instruments to record Led Zeppelin?

I would approach the entire project differently, the difference in SPL would be a very small factor amongst many other considerations.
I'm not going to speculate any more than say since the acoustic source was a bluegrass band, they probably approached the albums differently than Eddie Kramer (et al.) approached the originals.

It's not the genre of music that matters, it's the musical source, when it comes to microphones.

Yep. That's why your disdain for the specifics of what instruments were being recorded confused me.

He probably got the lowest level of advice that he could possibly get. I certainly wouldn't go about recording an album of acoustic music with a Shure 57 mic in this day and age. Even you intimate that he'll be "upgrading" at some time. To me, this means that he didn't get the best mic for the job, in your opinion.

Plenty of varying advise was given. Unfortunately some of it was clouded by the misnomer about rehab kind of connector was being used.
Mics are like mandolins. People commonly start with a cheaper all-rounder then move on as their taste develops. Very few people ever stop at just one and most people see sense in having a few lying around for different flavours and characteristics. If someone want to upgrade from an SM57 Depending on budget and applications I''d suggest anything from a Beyer Dynamic M201, to a KSM 32 or a KM84 to whatever ribbon they can afford.

[Jim Nollman]

If you are recording an album, I highly recommend you find a way to master the finished tracks. You can send your completed tracks out to a mastering engineer, which will cost you some dollar variant of three figures.

Or you can purchase software that let's you do it yourself. I have produced CDs both ways: using a mastering engineer, and also using my own software. If you are willing to learn the basic concepts of mastering software, and have ANY ambition to do more recording, I recommend you think about buying Ozone5. Ozone comes with enough presets so you can pretty much choose the sound you want right out of the box.

The trick here, is to understand that mastering is not about making each tune shine individually. That's done in the mixing stage. Rather, mastering unifies all your separately mixed tunes, making them more consistent in terms of such things as volume limiting, dynamics, and stereo separation.

As far as the stated issue of what mic to choose for recording mandolin, there are many threads on the Cafe devoted to this specific subject. In my studio, I usually reach for a Blue Baby Bottle condenser for this task, but others here do just as well with several other mic choices. Many recordists on the Cafe give high praise to ribbon mikes.

Money is an issue for most of us who take the leap into home recording. And the aphorism "you get what you pay for" is very much alive in choosing recording technology. Maybe, what you are willing to pay to get the job done optimally, is in direct ratio to how much of a perfectionist you are. I think I speak for many of us, to say that we assembled our studios in pieces, starting humble, and continually upgrading to get what we need to represent the sound we want the world to hear from us.