Just ordered an OLD bowlback off e-bay and am unsure about what type of strap or length to get for it. Anybody got any suggestions? By the way it's my first mandolin! Been playing guitar long time and prefer to wear my guitar fairly low so have to use long straps for that.
Oh man, wait till the classical people see this. Technically you don't use a strap with a bowl back, even when standing. I haven't mastered it yet but it is possible. I have been using my forearm, sort of, to hold it in place. Once you get the hang of it it works well. Some will tell you when sitting to take some of that rubber shelf liner and put it on your lap to help keep it in place. Just don't store them together. Im sure some of the pros will chime in. Have fun John
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Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.
To paraphrase John, "Strap!?"
Hello!
It isn`t impossible, although unusual. I have a friend, who was playing in a restaurant and was obliged to go around the tables, while playing. So the strap was very helpful in this particular case. But in principle John and Eugene are right, of course.
And beware of the "classical people"!
Good luck!
Fear not the "classical people", Sailor.
In fact, down in the classical section, there is a thread titled "Standing with a bowlback"; you may want to read that. And, if you are talking about playing sitting, well... then there is really no reason to consider a strap, as the bowl simply sits on your lap.
Enjoy your new baby!
It is not man who lives, but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)
I saw somewhere a bowlback where someone replaced one of the screws on the tailpiece with a small metal eye (as in "hook and eye"). You could conceivably use that with a rawhide thong one either end as long as it was anchored well.
On the other hand, I would not mess too much with a strap on any serious vintage instrument.
Frankly, I am of that ilk of "classical peope" and do not play with a strap, tho i do use them on my other non-bowl mandolins.
Jim
Jim
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Playing lately:
Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- 1904 Embergher Type 3 -- 1937 Gibson L-Century -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- ca. 1890s Celebrated Benary Banjo -- 1985 Monteleone Grand Artist Mandola
Some of the obscure earlier bowl-backed mandokin bore strap buttons: the mandolino of the baroque era, mandolino Bresciano, mandolino Lombardo, etc. #I don't know why they found use there but never on the modern Neapolitan mandolin (i.e., the "typical" bowlback). #I often play strapless and standing a la Pettine as I anxiously pace the floors of my suburban condominium, wild-eyed and haggard when I cannot access fish through the ice. #I don't do it for long and have never played in public that way.
Thanks to all for the replies.....guess that explains why I've not seen one with strap pins like my guitars. OOPS, never been much of a conformist anyway. As I spend a good deal of time on boats I like a strap on all instruments so that if I have to turn them loose they are still secure. Don't want them to slide off a seat when the boat rolls! Don't want to make any permanent modifications on an old instrument like this though so I guess I'll have a go at the eye bolt idea at the bottom. Thanks again.
Non destructive Idea:
I took a bit of johnson's paste wax, and packed in a film can.
wasnt what I had in mind, as it dried into a plug rather than staying a paste, BUT the resulting #'crayon' like plug is just what #works well to protect the varnish on my old Mandolin against any further sweat damage,
it also makes the #back sticky for a while, so it wont slip, does no damage to the finish, a trip thru the wash as usual, takes out what comes off on your shirt.
Kenny Hall of #fresno #plays his 'taterbug' standing upright on his thigh , seated.
"sees it as normal"
another option, a mariachi guitar neck strap, (ala Willy Nelson ,minus the macreme' RWB)
no mandolins were harmed by this message
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
OK, I'll bite, sailor. As a card-carrying member of the Order of the Bowl to sport original OLD bowlbacks dating to ca. 1835 and reproductions of even older instruments, I am desparately curious to know what old bowlback you have pending. Do you mind sharing?
Allright Eugene: If you go to E-bays website and look at auction #3769084913, you'll see the one I purchased. (Hope I did well) I figure that the effort that went into the woodworking on it makes it worth the money if nothing else but I sure hopes it plays and sounds nice. Guitars get a richer tone as they age( I purchased my Ovation six string new in 1981 and it sounds better than ever) soI figure this mandolin should sound great if it is a quality instruent.
Well, it looks mighty fine. #If it is functional, I would argue you did very well. #This pretty obviously is a product of Chicago's Lyon & Healy Co., I believe ca. 1915 or just a bit after. #This is not of their flagship brand, Washburn, but looks to be from the relative high end of one of their slightly lesser brands. #I might even wager that this either carries an American Conservatory label the seller did not see or had in the past. #In addition to the two pearl lozenges missing from from the rosette that the seller mentioned, it is also missing the binding from the terminus of the fingerboard. #These are rather trivial cosmetic issues, but I would probably pursue getting them fixed if I were the buyer.
When it arrives, scrutinize the neck and the condition of the cant (the top's crease). #If the cant has collapsed (and I don't think it has from the images), that would make for big trouble. #If the action is too high at the neck-body joint, you might want to get that corrected; I like mine around 2 mm, but up to ca. 3 mm shouldn't present a problem. #Minor correction is best tended to via a thin shim installed under the fingerboard.
When it arrives, make sure you keep it strung with very light strings, down to ca. 0.009" on e", similar to those in use when this was built (others could wreck it, the neck and cant especially, in pretty short order). #I like Dogal's "Calace" brand carbon steel, "dolce" gauge set RW-92b. #Lenzner makes fine bronze-wound strings, but they are difficult to obtain in the US. #When I started tweedling with these things, appropriate strings were very hard to find. #Now GHS (their "Classical" set), Dean Markley, and Ernie Ball are all making appropriate sets, although none of these has proven very long lived under my fingers. #Black Diamond has also resurrected their classic set for mandolin. #Such strings and instruments produce the most sound when played with a rather thin pick (maybe 0.8 mm or less) and much more point than preferred by bluegrassers.
When you do receive it, I hope you find the generosity to grace us with a few more images and some detail by posting here.
Enjoy it, welcome to The Order, and Merry Christmas!
Thanks for the info Eugene. Sounds like good advice to me...particularly the strings. Since you are obviously a connoisseur of bowlbacks let me suggest anotherto look at that sold recently on e bay. Auction #3769094581. The label inside reads:
Antica Fabbrica Napoletana di Violini - Mandolini - Chitarre e Armoniche
MARIO QUAGLIA FU GIUSEPPE
CASA FONDATA NEL 1890
CORSO UMBERTO I. 127 - NAPOLI
The decorative inlay work looks great and it appeared in the photos (which are good) to be functional or easily made so. Most of the old bowlbacks I've seen on there have delaminations on the bowl or where the top meets the bowl at the "cant" (learned something new there).
Will certainly be happy to post some photos and any additional info I can on it once I get it.
Thanks,for your help,..Andy
Frankly, Andy, I think you're better off with the one you have. I like the Romanesque profile of the Quaglia's soundbox and the unorthodox ribbing of the bowl. It also looks as though the Quaglia's bowl is lineed with wood shavings, a rather classy feature. Yes, it sports a great deal of decor, but it needs more cosmetic work than yours, and the quality of the decor is rather coarse. This smacks of a classic effort to obscure a rather base quality with quantity of ornament.
Well, I got the mandolin. It's really quite nice but needs some work. The end of the bridge is chipped off so I can only put on one of the highest pair of strings. Have a new bridge ordered. May ultimately need to replace the tuners. Probably needs to be set up by a good luthier. The soundboard is slightly distorted at either end of the oval sound hole. Biggest problem however is the operator (me) isn't sure of the tuning. Any suggestions on an electonic tuner for mandolins?
Congratulations on the new bowlback. It sounds that there are a few issues to be sorted out, although none of them sound very serious. This isn't unusual in old bowlbacks (indeed it would be unusual to get one off Ebay that didn't need some attention), and I agree with Eugene that this looks a very nice one for a very good price indeed.
However, this being your first mandolin means that getting the setup right and resolving the issues yourself isn't so straightforward. You probably should have a luthier looking at it. Unfortunately, very few luthiers are experienced with bowlbacks, and experience with other mandolins is not entirely transferable to bowls. If you post your location, somebody may be able to recommend a bowlback-savvy luthier in your area.
Regarding your first impressions:
- Where did you order a new bridge? Bridge blanks for old bowlbacks are difficult to get and difficult to fit. A bridge blank from, say, Elderly, intended for flattop mandolins, will probably not look right and may not work at all. Looking at the Ebay picture, your existing bridge looks salvageable and if so, it's probably best to work on that one rather than discard it. Is it the bone saddle insert that's chipped? You (or your luthier) may be able to build it up with bone dust and superglue. If it's the ebony that's chipped, I have been able to build up a chipped area with ebony filings and superglue as well.
- Concerning replacement tuners: Forget it. Your mandolin has enclosed tuners and nobody makes these new. Fitting salvage parts from another old mandolin should be very much a last resort and it'd be quite a search for a matching piece. Why do you think they need replacing? If it's just stiffness, then the judicious application of some tiny amount of fine machine oil, or penetrating oil, should work wonders.
- Slight warping of the top around the soundhole is very common and probably nothing to worry about, as long as the action is still fine. I would aim for just over 2mm at the 12th fret for the G-string and just under 2mm for the E-string. 3mm may still be playable, though a bit uncomfortable, anything more and I would recommend remedial action (especially for your first mandolin, for which you'd want easy playability).
- If your action needs adjustment, the easiest way to do so is by lowering the bridge. You can take material either from the top or the bottom of the bridge; that's an assessment that you (or your luthier) need to make from a close inspection of the bridge. For your instrument, if the action warrants lowering the bridge, then taking material off the saddle may enable you to resolve the chipping at the E-string at the same time.
- Intonation: Probably the single most important part of mandolin setup is to put the floating bridge in precisely the right position. Looking at the photo, it seems that yours is overlapping with the edge of the pickguard, i.e. that it is closer to the nut than the luthier intended. That is unusual: it is more common to see them being gradually pushed back towards the tailpiece as mandolins get older. Once you have a tuner (I recommend the Intellitouch PT-2), you should adjust the bridge position so that the fretted note at the twelfth fret is one octave above the open string. With the straight bridges of bowlbacks, a little bit of compromise is necessary to get all strings as close to optimum as possible. Good bridge position makes a huge difference, and even one millimetre change can transform your instrument.
Finally, I'd reiterate what Eugene said: use only very light gauge "classical" strings, by preference Dogal or Lenzner.
Congratulations again!
Martin
Thanks all for the info. I have an OLD electronic tuner that I have been using for my guitars for 20 plus years. Of course it has E,A, D, G on it but the pitch from high to low is reversed on the guitar compared to the mandolin from what I have read. My old tuner is a dial type with the needle reading a gauge having 440hz as centerline which is what I have always tuned my guitar too. Below that is 430 hz and above 450 hz.
I understand about the critical nature of having the instrument set up properly (same with guitars.) The bridge I ordered was from a guy on ebay called inlayartist. It has a flat bottom on it and looks very similar to the existing one in profile. Also ordered two bone saddle blanks. I have some ebony on hand and will probably repair the existing saddle/bridge but ordered the other one just in case. I have my own cabinet shop so nad have made custom furniture for many years so I should be able too handle that part.
The inside of the gears are stripped a little on a couple of the tuners. The gear appears to be bronze or brass and it slips some on the shaft. I could probabl get some metal added back to the inside of the gear and file it back to the correct shape.
As a woodworker myself I appreciate the craftsmanship that went in to building this in the first place and intend to restore it even if it takes a good deal of work. Will post pics of it when I'm done. There are no makers marks anywhere on it that I can find, although it might be identifiable by the engraving on the tailpiece. Thanks again, Andy
Forgot to add, I am in the Florida Keys if anyone knows a luthier that is familiar with these down here.
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