tremolo technique

[mommythrice]

I feel like I am STILL fighting with my tremolo on the G/D strings. I have no problem on A/E, but the bass strings are like quicksand. It seems like I have trouble staying on top of them and not digging down in between. For example, the g - b - e chord section in Southern Flavor, I play all on those two strings; its just alot of work. I think my strings are set moderately high - maybe that's it - but I like to be able to play really hard without buzzing. FWIW, I have a little trouble fretting that section, too. I don't have man hands, but I've been playing awhile and they are pretty strong in general. I alternate between the rounded corner of a blue chip and a Wegen, so I'm not using a pointy corner.

Any suggestions?

[Beanzy]

I did a couple of quick fixes for a concert with 3 orchestras and a choir where a couple of others & I had to play the lower 3 strings tremolo for a whole passage, followed by absolutely smacking the snot out of the poor thing with full-on chops for the rest of the piece.
It was sounding really 'sticky' on the G&D strings using a hard pick. The tremolo passage was supposed to be a cheesy sweet accompaniment to a choral passage, with 3 mandolins and two harps. I really didn't like how it was coming over, so I cheated transposed the whole thing up an octave (making it even cheesier which the composer wanted) and bought a really thin pick. I could get much smoother tremolo like that while still being able to dig in a bit with the pick to get good volume. Having left the hard pick ready on the stand with a couple of spares just in case, I could swap in the bar rest at the end.
So although not ideal it got me by that bit, by playing it up an octave and using a softer pick. Not ideal but it worked there.

I've very recently gone over to using the Wegen TF140 picks and have been using them for a bit more tremolo practice work to see if I can get it better with a hard pick. The bevelled edges definitely help as does a proper loose hold with a closed hand as the pick moves over both strings really smoothly. What I'm finding is that if I practice aiming at low volume but keeping it really smooth, once that's ok I can ramp it up volume-wise just using the wrist, without getting tense and I get the smoothness and volume. So maybe get the Wegen (not as slippy feeling as the BlueChip due to the holes) relax it all, nice grip, have a decent amount of pick protruding but focus on gliding it evenly. Forget about volume for the practice and just focus on the gliding straight across the strings. I normally start off practicing it with really wimpy strokes the tip of the pick barely touching the strings and at a fairly steep angle so it's not snagging.

Anyway a few ideas I'm playing with there. I definitely don't want to rely on the soft pick option in future to compensate for my lack of skill.

[Tom Wright]

This is one of the main reasons I use the reverse angle pick hold. I can turn the pick 90 degrees (less is usually plenty). I found the same issue of normal hold being ok on the high strings but not on the low (near) pairs. I always used this reverse grip in my guitar days, when strumming, and finally decided to commit to it for mandolin.

Very quiet, shimmering tremolo is possible since the pick will not dig in and get trapped. You can also dig in hard and not get trapped with a steeply angled pick. An advantage in the reverse angle is that, when turned as described, the pick is not scraping along the string, but simply acting as a cam, deflecting it downward. Less friction, less noise, and a gentle attack. With the normal grip, the more you turn it, the more it has to scrape, but when reversed, the plane of the pick is aligned with the swing of your arm/wrist.



This is more comfortable for some than others, helpful if your thumb is slightly double-jointed.

[mandroid]

pinky fingernail, sliding on the pick-guard, as a depth gage works for me..

[Elliot Luber]

I use a different approach for the lower two courses of strings. You have to adjust your technique. Don't approach it the same way you do for the upper strings. Stay loose.

[August Watters]

If the tremolo is working better on some courses than others, I'd suspect it's probably a pick angle issue -- recheck your right hand to make sure the pick is attacking each course from the same angle. If not, you may need to change something in the hand position, or the mechanics of the way the hand travels across the courses.

[mommythrice]

If the tremolo is working better on some courses than others, I'd suspect it's probably a pick angle issue -- recheck your right hand to make sure the pick is attacking each course from the same angle. If not, you may need to change something in the hand position, or the mechanics of the way the hand travels across the courses.

Well, I read your post and the first thing I though was, "Duh! I know that already."

But I did go back and really watch my hand and you are exactly right. I tend to rest the heel of my hand on the very end of my bridge - near the G string. So, if that is my pivot point for the tremolo (and probably all of my picking) the angle really does change. To get the same angle while playing G/D as I have on A/E, I need to move my hand about 3/4" beyond the G string --- floating in space.

I do notice that when I need to really get volume for a longer tremolo section on those strings, I tend to take my hand completely off the bridge. That works fine, but then I have trouble getting it planted back in time for picking individual notes.

So, now that I've defined the problem, how do I fix it?

[OldSausage]

Is there any chance you can post a video? Without being able to see what you're doing and how the result sounds, we're all just guessing, and it could be a lot of things. People tend to leave crucial information out of their descriptions, because it's the stuff you're not aware of that gets you.

But if you posted a video, there are a bunch of people on here who could probably fix it for you very quickly. And maybe if you watched the video before posting it, you might well see yourself what was going wrong.

[Charley wild]

If the tremolo is working better on some courses than others, I'd suspect it's probably a pick angle issue -- recheck your right hand to make sure the pick is attacking each course from the same angle. If not, you may need to change something in the hand position, or the mechanics of the way the hand travels across the courses.

That's my problem! I have to watch it on the bottom two courses. My tremolo is better naturally on the G & D courses as my angle of attack gets worse as I go to the middle and bottom courses. I can adjust sub conciously most of the time because I have taught myself to but I still catch myself sounding real thin on the bottom two courses now and then.

[GRW3]

Try practicing your tremelo with just your right hand. That way you can concentrate on the pick movement. I start every serious practice session with right hand only. I find I can get a stronger mental connection when I'm not fretting too.

[August Watters]

I tend to take my hand completely off the bridge. That works fine, but then I have trouble getting it planted back in time for picking individual notes.

So, now that I've defined the problem, how do I fix it?

I understand that a lot of people plant the wrist behind the bridge, and there are famous players who recommend this. But there are different schools of thought (as always), and this is an example (to me) of where it's better to get the wrist up off the strings, so that your technique doesn't rely on getting it back there in time. So I'd suggest the solution is to be less reliant on planting the wrist.

This is related to what I think is the central problem with wrist planting: unless you have hands the size of King Kong, you probably can't plant your wrist behind the bridge and also reach up to pick near the fingerboard. I want to be able to use all the varieties of tone, from picking back by the bridge to picking all the way up over the fingerboard. So I could try planting on mid-string to pick up there, but what about when you want to pick on the G and D strings? At some point it comes back to needing to get the wrist up off the strings.

I've concluded that some folks are fine with wrist planting because their style of playing doesn't lead them to picking over the entire range of the string. That's great if it's your choice, but for me I'd rather cultivate right hand independence, so there's no need for planting of any kind.

[Vernon Hughes]

Forget the wrist planting..plant the pinky on the top and lighten up ever so slightly on the pick grip you normally use,let it "flap" just a little..moving a little up towards the fingerboard helps as well..I use the pointed end of a fender extra heavy and have no trouble at all..

[Jim Broyles]

FWIW, I do not recommend planting the pinky on the top at all for any kind of picking. It might not be too bad on a pick guard, but not the top. I can control my tremolo better with the end of my wrist ( mainly the heel of my hand) resting on the strings just behind the bridge. For regular picking I either leave my entire picking hand free or rest it as described above. I do it, as I said, for control.

[Jim Broyles]

Like this:

[ald]

"Try practicing your tremelo with just your right hand. That way you can concentrate on the pick movement. I start every serious practice session with right hand only. I find I can get a stronger mental connection when I'm not fretting too"

I'm trying taking the pressure off the left hand strings as I tremelo with the right hand. This muffles the strings and makes it easier to tremelo and relax. Memorise the feeling then try to play exactly the same when not muffling the strings. It might help.

[mommythrice]

Ok. I've been working on the seemingly impossible: "unplanting" the right hand. I didn't think there was any way I was going to be able to do this, but it IS getting better. My right hand is brushing the strings for reference, but it no longer stuck there. And I still feel a little lost when I need to pick lots of individual notes (fiddle tunes) but tremolo and Monroe-style are getting much easier. I can play more expressively.

August - thanks for the great advice!!!