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Thread: your band-do you have a contract?

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    Registered User Chris "Bucket" Thomas's Avatar
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    Default your band-do you have a contract?

    Hello,

    Just wondering if anyone playing in a band uses contracts? It was suggusted to me by a friend; nothing fancy but more of a short bulleted document with the expectations and obligations of both parties.

    If you use one please post it!

    Thanks,
    Chris

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    We've only used a contract once (for a festival we played). We're mostly a bar band - and oral agreements are how we've done it for years.
    Pen

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    We've used contracts a few times over the years, but always for weddings, and it was always the bride who insisted. If we do sign a contract, we also take a non-refundable deposit. Like Pen, we're predominantly a bar band and verbal agreement is enough. I think we were cheated maybe once in our lives.
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    I usually only ue a written contract if my band is playing a show like a festival or show where the audience has to pay to get in because in case no one shows we still want to get paid...I do most shows on word of mouth and/or a handshake and I have never been stiffed...YET....

    Willie

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    Depends on the situation. A lot of our "contracts" are just printed-out e-mails detailing the performance arrangements. Most of the seniors' jobs I do are just arranged verbally. Some people who book for particular events, want contracts. I have noticed that weddings etc. often seem to involve a written contract. Also jobs with governmental entities -- parks, local governments, etc. If the job's for a significant amount of money, and/or it's with someone that I don't work with regularly, I'll use the very abbreviated contract form I store on my computer. Otherwise, it's all phone or e-mail. I should add that I've been "burned" maybe once or twice in 35+ years of semi-professional performing.
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    We never play without a contract, it protects us and the client.
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    If you are being paid for your services, then by all means have a simple well-defined contract. Any time that $ is involved I will have a contract drawn up.

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    poor excuse for anything Charlieshafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    Yup, do a contract in MOST situations. Obviously, small things, bars, etc., where you know the people it's probably not necessary. With any larger event, even if you're a small part of it, like a festival, we're all very used to contracts. A deposit is usually customary, about 50% of the total you're getting paid. Again with some of the bands we know well, we don't bother with the deposit, but both parties agree on that. Anyway, a contract should spell out the following:
    1: your band's name
    2: Venue's name.
    3: Date of gig
    4: Time of gig
    5: Length of set(s); i.e. one 45 minute set, 2-45 minute sets with intermission, or in the event of a festival, there may be several different times you play, or even different days. Could be a main-stage thing, and a workshop tent appearance. Whatever it is.
    6: Amount you get paid.
    7: Deposit amount, if applicable.
    8: Due date of signed contracts and due date of deposit. Can be two things. Many times we'll sign a contract 6 months in advance, but don't want to tie up our cash until 4-6 weeks before the gig. That's an element of trust in allowing a delay. Clearly, a more trustworthy and experienced venue will get cut a little more slack in timing.
    9: What time you're supposed to get there for load-in, and what time you soundcheck. You will have very little control over this; it's a function of the venue. Just put down what they want. If they're inexperienced and they ask your opinion, allow plenty of time for load-in and check if it allows.
    10: Who supplies the sound system, who runs it.
    11: Finally, the hospitality rider. This will only apply if you're traveling long distances. Do you get a hotel room or two or three? Food? At least make sure there's water available. We do get a few odd-ball requests, and depending on the artists, we either cave or delete them. We always make sure there's something to eat; it's just when they ask for a certain brand of bourbon or something where our response is "go suck an egg." There's a lot of wiggle room here. If it's a simple small event, expect nothing, and demand nothing. You'll get offered food and drink without even asking if you make things as painless on the promoters as possible.

    I think I have all the basics here, someone will chime in if they remember something I left out.

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    Registered User David Rambo's Avatar
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    Smile Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    We were members of the AFM (Union) and on that band we always had a union contract. It protected both sides, and it was suprising how often an owner tried to stiff us. One tried, every time, with every band. If you didn't count back the money in front of him, you later found that you had been shorted.
    It also helps stop last minute cancellations, although there usually was a clause stating when and why a job could be terminated. We as musicians make our plans based upon when and where we are booked. No one likes to be cancelled at the last minute, when it's too late to book somewhere else. ie. the afternoon of the job.
    Contracts just help keep everyone as honest as they "said" they were.
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    Registered User jim_n_virginia's Avatar
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    I know several people who do but most of them book heavily and months in adavance and they travel and according to the gigs thats how they plan their itinery for a year and if someone cancels on them at the last minute the contract protects them because they could have booked another venue for that day but now they have a big hole in it.

    Also they tell me it protects you and you still get paid if the show is cancelled for any reason.

    We don't use them ... you don't need them in the Chicken Shacks and taco stands we play at! LOL!

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    You can either have the terms of your engagement spelled out, or decide later (if something goes wrong) what you can prove in court and what you're willing to do to go that way. I don't just mean as a plaintiff.

    Who assumes liability for what? What happens if you're canceled at the last minute, or if the power fails? Who pays for damages if your band causes property damage or physical injury? What happens if you play one set out of three and you have to leave because XXXX?

    Written contracts don't matter much until you find you needed one. They're so much cheaper than litigation a written contract would have prevented or simplified.
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    In Pete Wernick's book How to Make a Band Work, he includes a copy of contract that you are free to use. I used it with one band for several years.

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    Registered User Geoff's Avatar
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    We play mostly bars and restaurants, but we have played some venues through a booking agency a few times and we may have had some sort of contract then. We've played two small festivals, one was so small that it seemed less formal than arranging to play an open mic night. The other is run by a friend of a friend (Spaghettifest) and while there was no real contract there was a pretty strong understanding; if we were late or didn't show up we would be a big dissappointment and very inconsiderate, but no bands are paid at this festival so contracts weren't that neccessary.

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    Depends what you mean by a "contract", a verbal agreement is a contract, doesn't require parchment and "whereheretoforewith it is agreeth ..." legalese throatclearings. Of course, if there are problems later, then the question is what the "misunderstanding" was....

    So there is an advantage to writing it down, most agreements are by e-mail and just state clearly the responsibility: Date, time, location, amount paid when and how, any other terms. No particular structure is needed. I'm doing it for a fairly well established festival (Topanga Banjo Fiddle, this will our 50th event, it started before I was born) and concert series (maybe approaching another 20 years). A simple clear e-mail exchange is all that I need. In the rare cases somebody wants to be sure something specific is stated (e.g. CD sales), this is as formal as we get (and those particular clauses were for a Grammy winner,):

    Advance payment? Nonrefundable deposits? Specific meals requested? That material goes right into the trash bin, I'm not going to deal with that. Your situations may vary (e.g. a company dinner banquet, a cruise ship, etc.).


    ARTIST: xx

    PROMOTER: Topanga Banjo and Fiddle Contest, Inc

    VENUE: Main Stage, Annual Topanga Banjo Fiddle Contest & Folk Festival,

    Paramount Ranch near Agoura, California - www.topangabanjofiddle.org

    DATE/TIME: x

    PAYMENT: $x Flat, paid by check at performance

    ADDITIONAL TERMS:

    1. PROMOTER will provide the following at no cost to ARTIST:

    a) Space and personnel at the venue for the selling of ARTIST's CDs and other merchandise during the event, 100% proceeds to ARTIST.

    b) Professional quality sound system with at least 12 inputs and microphones plus personnel to mix sound during performance.

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    Registered User steve V. johnson's Avatar
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    We have a contract but like an earlier poster said, we mainly (now) use it for weddings, festivals and corporate dates where a paper trail &/or tax information is necessary. And sometimes when PA gear is involved.

    We do use our stage plot(s) and equipment rider(s) often, whether we email them or print them out (or both), they're quite useful. Many times the plot & rider don't make it from the admin people to the stage/sound people, so it's always good to carry copies for them.

    Most of the places we play otherwise are familiar and we know one another, so the agreements are well understood and well upheld.

    It's excellent to have some around. Wernick's and the AFM contract are good to have on file. We've developed ours over the years and have sometimes exchanged contracts with other band friends and compared notes, and then modified ours from their infos.

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    I used to have a recording contract with Columbia records. every month I'd send them 19.95 and they'd send me a recording.

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    With few exceptions, I've found that contracts are documents drawn between two parties who have no reason to trust one another. I don't do business with those I have no reason to trust, hence I've never demanded the contract, although I've agreed to sign a few over the years.
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    Usually the agreement is informal, especially if I know the party and have worked for them before. I've used this contract at the employers request:

    BOOKING AGREEMENT

    1. THIS CONTRACT, entered into on this __ day of ___ 200_, is for the personal services of the Musician(s) for the performance described below. The undersigned employer and the undersigned agree and contract as follows:

    2. NAME OF MUSICIAN(S):

    3. NUMBER OF MUSICIAN(S):

    4. NAME AND ADDRESS OF PLACE OF PERFORMANCE:

    5. DATE(S) OF PERFORMANCE:

    6. TIME(S) OF PERFORMANCE:

    7. WAGE AGREED UPON:

    8. DEPOSIT:

    9. PAYMENT OF BALANCE TO _____________ MADE IN U.S.
    CURRENCY OR CERTIFIED CHECK AT THE END OF PERFORMANCE.

    10. ADDITIONAL TERMS:

    11. This contract constitutes a complete and binding agreement between the employer and the musician(s). AGENT acts only as agent and assumes no responsibility as between the employer and the musician(s).
    12. In case of breach of this contract by Employer, the Employer agrees to pay the amount stated in Section 6 as mitigated damages, plus reasonable attorney's fees, court costs, and legal interest.
    13. The Employer agrees to be responsible for harm, loss, or damage of any kind to musician(s) person or property while located at the place of performance (Section 3 herein).
    14. The persons signing for Employer and the Musician(s) agree to be personally, jointly and severally liable for the terms of this contract.

    ___________________________________
    for Employer

    ___________________________________
    for Musician(s)
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    Hello guys,

    Just thought I'd share quite an interesting blog about band agreements: http://www.avenantlaw.com/whybandagreement/

    According to this blog, bands should have band agreements (which are actually 'partnership agreements') in place even before any money starts being earned.

    and here is a template with a preview: http://www.themusiciansguide.co.uk/band-agreement.php

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim2723 View Post
    With few exceptions, I've found that contracts are documents drawn between two parties who have no reason to trust one another.
    As much as I appreciate the contract criteria and examples offered, what Tim says is SOP, in my experience. Around here, it's all verbal agreements, and the only time I have signed a contract was when I have played at the Navy base. (Can't do nothing with the federal gummint without some such, and the application for an access pass to get on the base was the most intrusive, invasive form I have ever seen, even worse than the job application for the USPS - but I digress ...) My regular gig requires a 1099 form as we are paid by check as independent contractors, but other than that, it is always handshake and cash, and I always wash my hands afterward.

    And hope for the best. One time I played a place, and three hours into our four-hour gig the manager said we could knock off early, as business was slow. I told my guitarist, "Watch this. They're only going to pay us for three hours." Sure enough, we got 75%. Now, if we were hourly employees sent home early, OK, you punch out and get paid for time worked. But as independent contractors, we are paid by the job, not the hour, and having fulfilled our side of the bargain, we were entitled to full pay. We could have kicked up a fuss, but what would we have gotten? We would never get hired back there, and the manager would probably have badmouthed us to any other manager or owner he happened to talk to. I really wished we were union musicians, but as far as I know, club performers here are non-union. This is a buyer's market, and the clubs can pick and choose from a glut of musicians eager to snag a gig however they can.

    So though I don't trust anyone who hires us, and always keep an eye on what's going on, I accept what fate has handed me, however grudgingly. Until a day dawns when my services are actually in demand, I have to play this little game. Even at my regular gig, where we are well-liked by first-timers, regular and repeat customers, staff, management, and the owner, we are at the owner's whim, and could get 86'd at any time, with no notice. So I always tread lightly, maintain a friendly but cordial attitude, and don't push it with any requests, suggestions, or objections. As for a contract - fuggedaboutit! I am so grateful we have a steady gig throughout the lean summer months I am not about to rock the boat. I can see the deep water from the stage.
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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    Depends on the gig. For playing in a bar, or anything resembling a "concert" where it's basically a fixed package, then it's usually a handshake or verbal agreement over the phone.

    Weddings are different, because they can easily expand beyond what was originally agreed to, especially when booked months in advance. It might include special requests beyond our usual repertoire, like a tune for the processional that we'll have to learn from scratch. That kind of thing has to be carefully set up in advance. We use a contract that specifies exactly what we'll be doing (number of sets, any special requests, start and end times), and exactly what we require from the venue (AC power, performance space, access prior to the event, etc). We include restrictions on use of the PA we provide, because that can easily lead to misunderstandings when someone's cousin wants to be a DJ with his iPod.

    We require a deposit to lock up the date when the contract is signed, which makes it possible to turn away other jobs on that day. We get payment before we begin playing, because the end of a wedding can be chaotic. You don't want to have to hunt down the person who signs the check, and find out that they've already left for an off-site party. We build in a travel fee beyond a certain radius of the town we're based in. All of that is in our contract, so there are no misunderstandings.

    If you don't have a contract for a wedding gig, then you're probably the only service provider at that event who isn't working under a contract and protected by a deposit for the day's commitment. A contract can be reassuring to the client too, because it shows you're professional, and they have some reassurance that you'll actually show up at the gig.

    So that's our take on it, with the current duo and trio I'm playing in. Concerts and bars can be flexible. For weddings, we use a contract.

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    Default Re: your band-do you have a contract?

    I played with a professional entertainment group for twenty-nine years, and handled bookings for part of that time. We played all over the country but mostly in the mountain west. We almost always used a contract, and the few times we did not, we regretted it. We played a lot of conventions and entertainment chairmen would often change between booking and performance without any communication about commitments. We had a major oil company try to stiff us once. Turned out it was a new executive secretary who had promised to "cut costs." Fortunately, she contacted us just before the event with a demand to take a 50% cut and we just cancelled. At the last minute before the event, she was pushed aside and we were re-booked at ythe original rate. Hunter Thompson once wrote something like "The music business is a place where pimps and thieves run free, and there are some bad people too." (That's not quite it, but you get the idea.)

    On the other hand, in the mid-80's we once played a big party at a motel complex and on our way backstage afterwards we were asked if we would step into a small private event for Phillips Petroleum, about 25 people, and play a couple of tunes. They put a $100 bill in each of our pockets as we left.

    Most people who book bands have no idea as to the proper procedures or custom. You need to lead them, and a contract is part of that process.

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