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Thread: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

  1. #1

    Default Headstock Scroll Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    i open my case today and notice the swirly ear popped off of my Eastman MD315. naturally i am freaking out. i speak to my seller who says this is actually normal; that the swirly ears are too hard to make out of 1 piece of wood so they are 2 piece (glued on) with a piece of veneer over the top of the headstock to hold it all together basically.

    can someone please confirm that this is true. should i bother trying to ask about manufacturer warranty or should i just accept it as a normal occurance for people with swirly ear mandos...any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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    someone mentioned to me that bill monroe (i apologize as i am newbie and don't know him) also had the same issue. looks like it here
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    Last edited by Twilo123; Oct-17-2014 at 6:07pm.

  2. #2
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    It's called a headstock scroll. Swirly ear sounds too much like something that happened in the boys' room in junior high.

    You need to provide some more context. Did you buy this by post and open it for the first time to find the scroll broken off? If so, then that's shipping damage, and you and the seller should pursue an insurance claim with the shipper. If the seller failed to cushion the headstock during shipping, then he or she may be responsible to pay for the repair in the event that (a) the package wasn't insured or (b) an insurance claim is rejected.

    It's true that "wings" are often laminated onto headstocks before final carving, but that doesn't mean that breakage of a headstock scroll should be accepted as "normal." It's not.

    As for warranty, if you bought this new, Eastman may have a warranty that covers it. If you bought it secondhand, then warranty coverage is less likely.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    It's called a headstock scroll. Swirly ear sounds too much like something that happened in the boys' room in junior high.

    You need to provide some more context. Did you buy this by post and open it for the first time to find the scroll broken off? If so, then that's shipping damage, and you and the seller should pursue an insurance claim with the shipper. If the seller failed to cushion the headstock during shipping, then he or she may be responsible to pay for the repair in the event that (a) the package wasn't insured or (b) an insurance claim is rejected.

    It's true that "wings" are often laminated onto headstocks before final carving, but that doesn't mean that breakage of a headstock scroll should be accepted as "normal." It's not.

    As for warranty, if you bought this new, Eastman may have a warranty that covers it. If you bought it secondhand, then warranty coverage is less likely.
    thank you for providing me with the correct nomenclature. i wasn't sure what to put hence the child description for lack of better terminology.

    i purchased this last December. i have played the instrument about 40 times since i received it. i keep it in a hard case and only play at home. i purchased it new from a reputable online merchant who specializes in mandolins. the person who answered the phone at the merchant when i called today told me the above. i opened the hard case today and noticed the piece was off. the only thing i can think of is when i put it back in the case and put the case away. hardly a shocking jolt on the instrument i would think. i have had acoustic guitars for 20 years and i have had plenty over that time with no issue.

    as far as Eastman is concerned i went to their website and contact us only has a form; i could not find any phone number on the website which is strange to me. i admit when i 1st purchased this mandolin i just went by reviews i saw online. maybe i should have researched the manufacturer more. it's just that there only seem to be a few mando manufacturers that i see people liking and Eastman always seems to be at or near the top of the list. also for the amount of $ i spent on this for the headstock to snap off like that so easily i was shocked. but again i am new to the mandolin world. for all i know the more expensive a mandolin is the more fragile it is or something.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    That's a common break in F-style mandolins, and is caused by what could be considered a shortcoming of the design- the grain of the wood in the headstock runs in the perfect direction to make that a weak area and liable to break when even a small impact happens there. All F mandos are vulnerable to that break unless the area has been explicitly reinforced to prevent it, and that is fairly rare, as evidenced by how often it happens.

    Doubtful that the manufacturer would consider it a warranty item.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    to top it off the break is totally clean. i would think there might be some splintering. nada. totally clean break.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Lindstrom View Post
    That's a common break in F-style mandolins, and is caused by what could be considered a shortcoming of the design- the grain of the wood in the headstock runs in the perfect direction to make that a weak area and liable to break when even a small impact happens there. All F mandos are vulnerable to that break unless the area has been explicitly reinforced to prevent it, and that is fairly rare, as evidenced by how often it happens.

    Doubtful that the manufacturer would consider it a warranty item.
    Thanks Rick. That's what the seller was saying. I just wanted to confirm. it is what it is. i should have researched more before purchasing.

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Common damage yes but, it does not just "happen". These are almost always the result of an impact, maybe slight granted, but impact related usually. I cannot speak for Eastman but many builders do reinforce that area for this very reason. Even PAC rim pieces from the '70's had some support. Sorry Rick, many companies DO consider this break, even as it does happen commonly.
    Do not use "Gorilla glue" for repair, opinions of how to repair will doubtless follow within minutes.....
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    Registered User Marvino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    I think a 1 5/8" drywall screw would do the trick. Of course dont forget to drill a pilot hole to avoid splitting.

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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    My Gibson F-12 sustained similar damage once, but it was the result of it dropping a few feet head first straight down onto bricks. It hit on the point, damaging the binding there, and nearly snapping the scroll off. My luthier was able to glue it together without much trouble. I would think this would be a job for glue as well, since its purpose is decorative, not structural, and shouldn't be under much physical stress. I don't understand why yours broke off, but it should be an easy repair.

    Just so you know, Bill Monroe was about the most famous mandolin player in history, commonly referred to as The Father Of Bluegrass - may or may not have invented it all by himself, but surely popularized it - and is forever linked to bluegrass as its chief proponent. The instrument in the photo was damaged intentionally by himself in a dispute with Gibson over repairs done not to his liking. He broke off the headstock scroll and gouged the name "Gibson" out of the pegboard.

    Good luck with it. Welcome to the Café!
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Say, Marvino have you looked at the "Don't Do This" thread?
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    The better cases will have extra cushioning in the headstock area to try to prevent this. A good luthier can fix this up almost like new.
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Say, Marvino have you looked at the "Don't Do This" thread?

    Yes, that is where I got the idea from.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Bill Monroe yada yada The instrument in the photo was damaged intentionally by himself in a dispute with Gibson over repairs done not to his liking. He broke off the headstock scroll and gouged the name "Gibson" out of the pegboard.
    Yes on the gouging, no on the scroll break. Separate incidents. Never heard anyone claim that the scroll break was intentional.

    The incidents did happen around the same time -- I don't know of a photo showing the break that does not also show the gouge.

    I don't know anything about Eastman's warranty policy, but if I were you I'd call your dealer back and try to press for some more details on that score. Dealers should have some information about warranties on products they sell.
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Oh, OK. My bad. The subject hasn't come up in so long, I forgot, if I ever knew, and I thought - well, I said what I thought.
    Last edited by journeybear; Oct-17-2014 at 8:54pm. Reason: correction
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    OK, good old Mandolin Café, mandolin info resource par excellence. In a story written by Bill Graham, back when the headplate was coming up for auction:

    "About a year after the gouge, Siminoff said, Monroe fell with the mandolin and knocked the treble side scroll off the peghead."

    Later in the story, Graham says that in 1980, after Gibson reps had tried for quite a while to mend fences, Monroe let the company work on his mandolin again. They replaced the peghead veneer and restored the headstock scroll.
    Last edited by journeybear; Oct-17-2014 at 8:54pm. Reason: correction
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    Registered User Julie M's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    I recently bought an Eastman 305 over another brand because I was told it had a lifetime warranty. Yours should have the same. If you can't find contact info for Eastman, contact your seller.

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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilo123 View Post
    thank you for providing me with the correct nomenclature. i wasn't sure what to put hence the child description for lack of better terminology.

    ... i keep it in a hard case and only play at home. i purchased it new from a reputable online merchant who specializes in mandolins. the person who answered the phone at the merchant when i called today told me the above. i opened the hard case today and noticed the piece was off. the only thing i can think of is when i put it back in the case and put the case away. hardly a shocking jolt on the instrument i would think. i have had acoustic guitars for 20 years and i have had plenty over that time with no issue.
    Your characterization of the term "swirly ear" (!) as a "child description" leads me to offer a conjecture as to what might have happened. Yes, headstock scrolls are fragile things, and they can certainly can be snapped off with enough force (even inside the case -- look at Pete Martin's avatar). But they don't come off spontaneously! So -- Do you have any children in your house? If so, I'd bet you that the headstock scroll came off when one of them picked up and dropped your case, or knocked into it accidentally but violently, or perhaps even removed the mandolin from its case. Could that have happened? Simply putting your mandolin away in its case, as you did, would not snap off the headstock scroll. But those little gremlins are another thing altogether.

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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    The guy who framed the original peghead veneer is the brother of my guitar player! I think there is a you tube story with Rendell Wall talking about the restoration project somewhere.
    One of the interesting things about living in Kalamazoo!
    That break is so common, I would almost be surprised if it was covered by a warranty. Worth a shot but, they don't just break without some kind of impact.
    BTW- I like the swirly ear nomenclature!
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Twilo123- be sure to follow up this thread and let us know if the break gets handled by Eastman under the warranty.

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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Many manufacturers do not work directly with customers, but expect their dealers to be the middleman in warranty claims-- so it is not unusual that Eastman is not easy to contact. Your dealer should really be the conduit between you and Eastman. That being said, whether this is a manufacturing flaw or due to impact, I wouldn't be surprised if Eastman won't cover it-- truth is, this almost always happens because of impact. As others have said, this would be a trivial repair for a competent luthier, and probably cost nearly nothing. You will probably have to stare at it to find the joint once repaired.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvino View Post
    Yes, that is where I got the idea from.
    I love Dave Cohen's response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cohen View Post
    If you want to make an enemy out of every luthier on the planet, go ahead and use a drywall screw. If you want to make future repairs impossible, go ahead and use a drywall screw. And especially, if you want to greatly devalue your vintage mandolin, go ahead and use a drywall screw. If you want to make your headstock look terrible, go ahead and use a drywall screw. I was gonna go on ranting, but I looked at what I said above and decided that I covered the subject.
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  25. #22

    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    so as i said earlier i don't even take the mando out of the house. i basically take it out of the case and put it back in. the only thing i can think of is sometimes i don't take it out of the case where it is laying. in other words i may have the case on the ground and pick it up and put it on the couch to take out the mando, play it for a bit, pop it back in the case, and put the case back on the ground (or something similar). this is the only time i can think of any chance for a hard contact but even then it shouldn't be that hard i would think (even so what is the hard case for if not to help brace on contact). i didn't drop the case and i have no children or animals in my home. as far as care i have 13 string instruments that i have taken care of over 20 years (pics here http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=358240) so i consider myself somewhat familiar with caring for string instruments.
    i'm not throwing the mando around. i love and deeply care for instruments as you can hopefully see from the pics in the url above. for instance in the pics in the link above 2 people were standing just out of shot at all times in case any of the instruments moved. it took me about 45 minutes just to setup enough that i was comfortable moving away from the instruments to take the pics.

    as far as what happened i have no clue that is why i posted on here and called my dealer. i don't have experience with mandolins specifically and while i could see it happening after the fact; i did not know that it could possibly break like this. to top it off it was such a clean break that i felt suspect that this was 2 pieces to begin with and put together. i see now that there is a veneer top on the headstock. what need is there for a veneer top on a headstock? however again i am not a woodworker per se so i am asking. i know enough to know i don't know anything in this case and am asking for people more knowledgable that myself to figure it out.

    Based on the responses here i am wondering if i should call my dealer back and press for other options or even just keep googling Eastman until i can get a phone number and see what they say.

    at the end of the day i was told that any luthier could easily put it back on but keep in mind that they are prone to breaking in this spot as it is a weak point and most likely will keep happening. unless someone drills a dowl in to strengthen it (which we both agreed is ludicrous to do) i may want to just consider not reattaching it and calling it a day. as was stated above it is cosmetic. i just feel a little burned that i paid almost 4x my A style and have this kind of issue.

    Thank you everyone for your replies. Without replies here i would be totally lost as i have no experience in the mandolin arena...
    Last edited by Twilo123; Oct-17-2014 at 10:34pm.

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Won't dispute your care taking, things happen. Maybe you should take it out for a ride now and then, a little fresh air can't hurt.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    There is no reason not to keep pushing for a warranty repair; the worst they can do is say "no." As far a it being a weak point that will keep breaking, I heartily disagree. I have played F-style mandolins for 15 years now and never had one break. I don't doubt that your mandolin didn't suffer any trauma, but it's pretty rare for a peghead scroll just to drop off on its own accord. On the other hand, it doesn't take a whole lot of impact to break one off, which is why it's a common repair. If it's reglued, I sincerely doubt it would break again, unless subjected to impact.

  28. #25

    Default Re: Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie M View Post
    I recently bought an Eastman 305 over another brand because I was told it had a lifetime warranty. Yours should have the same. If you can't find contact info for Eastman, contact your seller.
    i did contact my seller and they told me it is common damage and not warrantied.

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