Is fiddle tunes the only way to learn?

[M D SMITH]

Hey guys. Over the past 10 or so years, I've dabbled in guitar, banjo, mandolin, dobro and fiddle. The one thing I've noticed with all of these is that every book that is geared toward bluegrass/old timey music starts you playing fiddle tunes. I'm not totally opposed to playing fiddle tunes, but after a while, they get old. Not to mention that they all seem like just endless strings of eigth notes. I mean, I can hear the melody in there, but to me when you're playing nothing but eigth notes, there isn't really much feeling in it. I mainly play with my dad, who plays guitar, and we try to do all kinds of different music, most of which are vocal tunes. What I'm interested in is being able to play all of the little fills you hear in vocal tunes, as well as coming up with a short solo during the song. Is fiddle tunes really the way to achieve this? If not, could someone recommend a book of video to get me going in the right direction?

[pickloser]

You aren't the only one who tires of fiddle tunes. Imo, a good resource for learning fills and song breaks is the Mandolin Pickers Guide to Bluegrass Improvisation, even if the fills and breaks you want to play aren't in BG music. Niles H.'s Bluegrass Up the Neck is a real eye opener too, I think.

Lately I have been adding to my fills repertoire by close listening to good recordings with mandolin in hand and my Zoom H2 at the ready. When I hear a good fill, I back it up and listen several times. (Fiddle fills are usually easy to hear.) Then I figure it out on the mandolin and record the fill on the Zoom. I keep all these in a separate folder, and I practice a few almost every day. During the part of my practice when I work on fills and breaks (again playing along to rhythm tracks or CDs), I try and make it a point to use the fills I had worked on earlier. This is helping me in my effort to not be so repetitive/predictable.

If you would like to read some rants against / defenses of fiddle tunes check this thread out: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...e-fiddle-tunes

Of course, I hope you get some fresh responses too.

[Phil Goodson]

Yes!! Thank you very much for saying that! I've been saying that for years.
I've never liked fiddle tunes very much either.

That said, in recent years I HAVE come around to admit that learning a good number of fiddle tunes DOES help the fingers find their way around improvisation later on. So I'm coming back around to learning some more.

To try to answer you question, I think you can develop many of the skils you seek by learning to play song melodies BY EAR and by listening SPECIFICALLY to fills and solos that you want to copy. Then spend time getting some of those patterns under your fingers. It helps to stop and figure out WHY those patterns work, so you can move them around and alter them for other songs. LISTEN TO MUSIC, lots of music and copy.

Lots of ways to get from point A to point B. Different strokes.

[pefjr]

Hal Leonard's Fake Book

[Jim Garber]

Classical methods use small bits of tunes to teach various techniques. Fiddle tunes are our etudes, as Phil noted above. Many work with either scalar melodies or arpeggiated ones based on chords. Yes they are elemental, but if you listen to some masters of the various genres that use them you can see that they don't have to be boring and you can certainly inject feeling into them.

Having said all that, there is nothing wrong with exploring various licks and fills as well. The way I learned them was playing with others. After playing for 10 years, i would hope that the OP does just that and jams on whatever music he likes. Playing fills is something you learn on the job (actually playing) but you can certainly copy licks from the recordings you like.

[Barn Owl]

Thanks for the insight guys..

[Steve Ostrander]

Time to revive this old chesnut:

Q: Why do fiddle tunes have names?
A: So you can tell them apart.

[JeffD]

It helps to stop and figure out WHY those patterns work, so you can move them around and alter them for other songs.

I find this really helps with a lot of it.

[M D SMITH]

After playing for 10 years, i would hope that the OP does just that and jams on whatever music he likes.

I do try to do this on guitar, as I have put the most time into this instrument. As I said in my first post, those 10 years were just dabbling with different instruments without ever really sticking to any one long enough to become preficient. I might play banjo for 4 months or so, then not play anything for a few months, then pick up the guitar again, ect. Looking back at all of the time I wasted jumping around, and where I could have been on any one of the instruments if I had stuck to one, makes me sick. That's why I'm so determined to really buckle down with the mandolin this time. I've been practicing everyday for about an hour, for the last month or so. I'm just trying to think about what I really hope to accomplish on the mandolin, and find the most productive way to get there.
I appreciate everyones responses. Thanks.

[JeffD]

It probably wasn't a waste of time. Maybe more effecient to stick to one, but the things you learned on the others all contribute to each others skills.

[M D SMITH]

It probably wasn't a waste of time. Maybe more effecient to stick to one, but the things you learned on the others all contribute to each others skills.

Yeah, you're probably right. I've always had the mindset that playing music is just a hobby, and is supposed to be fun. I have enough things in life that I HAVE to do, so with music, I just play what I want when I want. I've come to realize though, that you aren't going to get very far with this attitude.

[AlanN]

I love sitting around and picking fiddle tunes, preferably on old mandolins. And if I have a partner, doing the twin thing is even better.

[AnneFlies]

Play what you think you want to hear.

[Denny Gies]

For the solo needs, stick with the melody until you're comfortable with a tune, then experiment. One thing that works for me is to steal licks from CD's that I like. Or playing along with CD's has also been a good way for me to learn stuff other than fiddle tunes. Have fun, take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

[JeffD]

I just play what I want when I want. I've come to realize though, that you aren't going to get very far with this attitude.

Its true. No one can go far until going far is important to them. But maybe we need the casual fun time in order to be ready to make going far important.

Weeds prepare the soil for the grasses and bushes, which prepare the soil for the trees. Or something like that.

[Barry Wilson]

I'm just glad these fiddle tunes are all new to me. I am in love with the song old joe clark, way too much fun to play. then you search youtube and find it actually has vocals? kool.

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Everyone has said the good things that will help. Gotta love this cafe.

Fiddle tunes are what they are, and are a building block for mandolin players. Double stops and all that, just for starters. You have said fills and solos are an interest at this point for you. Follow some of the above advice for that.
How are your improv skills? Those will help a good bit on fills, so perhaps plan to work on those. Play out with friends, who will give you the space to do that, as much as you can for that .
Also playing a very wide variety of music helps (regardless of your personal favorite genres). Classical to the most contemporary are all fair game.
Keep up playing/practicing regularly.
And how about writing some music for solo mandolin and vocal? Make this mandolin/vocal combination into interesting duets in terms of melody/voicings. That will really personalize, and show you, where your own mandolin strengths are. I know this, in particular, has allowed me to find my own style. And have more confidence as I do more of this, for better or worse! It is noticeably different music that happens that way. And I don't necessarily mean just 1 4 5 tunes with your poetry du jour, although that is perhaps a starting place. Explore music a bit. Use different time signatures.
Of course it is good, and important, to learn the styles of others, either by lesson, video, book, notation, etc. but there is much merit in having, and developing, one's own perspective and presentation as well.

Jonathan

[Ivan Kelsall]

I love Fiddle tunes & play them as often as i can,especially if i come across a new one,but no,they're not the only way to learn. Listen to songs & the back-up mandolin parts & try a few of those on for size. After all,Bluegrass (if that's what you're playing) is a 'group' music & you need to be a 'group' picker,not just a 'soloist'. Listen to as many different genres that have mandolin in them as you can,& learn to play what grabs you,it all adds to your own box of 'licks & tricks'. Re Fiddle tunes,i recently heard Kenny Baker playing his tune 'Spider Bit The Baby' on I'net radio,i couldn't get my mandolin out quick enough !!
Ivan

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Well, of course, Ivan, but being a 'group' picker is still all about being sensitive to the moment, - right place, at the right time, and the right notes, no more, no less (well, maybe less - as shown to us by Mr. Monroe's example). Believe me, I have learned that, being a guitarist in a traditional Cajun band, which is a rather humbling experience for a New Englander who grew up with the music of the country to the north rather than the the southern regions. One still must rise to the occasion (back to mandolin content) when necessary, whether with prepared licks or improvisational skills. Usually a combination of both! If the OP is playing with a guitar only, perhaps more of the solo mandolin mindset might work well. There are licks and tricks, but also a personal approach/style is quite valuable. With a duo, and even with a larger group.

Go to the 'Women With Mandolins" thread, and listen to the latest SHEL tune posted. Yes, just Eva holding it down, but still, the idea is to make the most of a tune (she, as usual, does), with your own style. They have style that is their own, and most interesting, at least to some of us. I am just saying. And isn't that what we admire in all our mandolin heros/heroines, solo or group? Mandolin can be what you want it to be. That's good.

Jonathan

[Ivan Kelsall]

Rightly said Jonathan.The big trouble for many of us on here,including me,is that we have nobody to play with at all.That's one of the reasons that i use I'net radio so much as well as using my CD's as 'pick along music'. With I'net radio,you never know what's coming up,just as in an informal jam session. I'd like $/£ for every tune that i stumbled & fumbled through at the outset,but i knew that would be the case,just stuck with it & it's paid off.I now have a decent picking style & a good sense of where to get the 'sounds' i hear in my head on the fingerboard. Of course that only comes with time & lots of practice.
As a personal note to you - I love Cajun music !!. If you can't tap your foot (feet) to that music,you're dead already,
Ivan

[Mandobart]

Here's a repost reply from the other thread on this subject over on the general board. Another way to learn:

Here's another way to learn to play songs that you like (rather than whatever songs they use as learning tools in a given method book). This is how I learned guitar decades ago. Learn chords. It is easier to learn a song by first knowing the chords and where they change in a song than to pick the melody, especially if you don't read music or tab fluently. Learn the basic I, IV, V, and relative minors for the most commonly used keys in the genre you like. For C&W, folk and rock, that would be A, C, D and G. For blues its usually A, E and D. For BG (fiddle tunes) common keys are A, B and D. Most songs featuring banjo or dobro are in G. Anyway, when you add these up you're only talking about seven total major chords to cover all these keys, and 6 relative minors. Can you learn 13 chords? You bet. You will end up learning many more as you progress. Get any one of many available mandolin chord books, or find the charts here on the cafe and elsewhere online.

Now go to chordie.com or similar and find (almost) whatever song you like; it will show up in the standard lyrics with chords over the words format to show you where the changes are. If its a song you like and can sing you already know where the chord changes are. You'll be surprised how quickly you can learn to play the chords to a song and sing along (or accompany a singer). You can play the rhythm however you want, and however it fits in the group of folks you play with. Add melodic highlights playing notes in the chord, etc. if you like. These are things that for me naturally progressed from first knowing the chords. You don't need a method book to learn this, just a little motivation.

I still think it is worthwhile to learn to read music, to take in lessons and workshops and play multiple genres and styles. But for a beginner just starting out who really doesn't like bluegrass or whatever is presented in the method book, a chordchart, chordie and some practice can get you playing songs today.

[Sandy Beckler]

Is fiddle tunes the only way to learn?

Gee....I wish Matt hadn't phrased it that way....every time I see that I cringe.

[doc holiday]

......finally...the Bluegrass Grammar Police.... Sandy I was right there cringing with you!
& no you can't beat fiddle tunes....or hours of practicing 'etudes' if you were studying piano....
if it were that easy everyone would be playing the mandolin instead of a ukelele

[AlanN]

Is fiddle tunes the only way to learn?

Gee....I wish Matt hadn't phrased it that way....every time I see that I cringe.

You ain't from around here, is you?

[Jim Garber]

Is you is or is you ain't my fiddle tune?