Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: Violin or fiddle?

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    109

    Default Violin or fiddle?

    Mandolin content = tuned the same way.

    I don't play violin (other than as a kid in music class), but I've perused instrument dealer sites that have categories for violin AND for fiddle. Or can set up a violin as a fiddle. ??? I always thought it was the exact same instrument, just a different name. Like pancakes or flapjacks, same thing. Figured this community would certainly know the answer.

    My new The Loar LM-500 should be here later this week too, I can't wait!
    The Loar LM500
    Trinity College Octave
    Taylor 114ce
    Martin D12X1AE 12-string
    1980 Ovation Grand Balladeer
    Fender Stratocaster
    Piles O' Pennywhistles/Low Whistle

  2. #2
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    6,633

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil1580 View Post
    Mandolin content = tuned the same way.

    I don't play violin (other than as a kid in music class), but I've perused instrument dealer sites that have categories for violin AND for fiddle. Or can set up a violin as a fiddle. ??? I always thought it was the exact same instrument, just a different name. Like pancakes or flapjacks, same thing. Figured this community would certainly know the answer.

    My new The Loar LM-500 should be here later this week too, I can't wait!
    They are the same instrument. There is some times a difference with the set up between an instrument used for classical music and an instrument used for bluegrass-old time music. Some fiddle players like a flatter curve on the bridge to make double stops easier to play and a lot of fiddle players use all metal strings and like to have a tailpiece with fine tuners for all four strings.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  3. #3
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Fiddle is basically the same instrument as a violin. Some small differences have more to do with the culture of folkie music versus classical music, and the approach to the music.

    More fiddle players will have a fine tuner on every string than classical players, who more often have only one on the E string.

    Some fiddlers flatten their bridge a bit, in order to better get some double stops and such.

    Fiddlers who use non-standard tuning call it cross tuning, violists who use non-standard tuning call it scordatura.


    A girl with red hair that plays a fiddle will find that her hair turns auburn if she plays a violin.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  4. #4
    Registered User Elliot Luber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Long Island, NY, USA
    Posts
    4,157

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Same instrument. Difference is in the musician, and the attitude with which they address the instrument.

  5. #5
    In The Van Ben Milne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    To the left of the Southern Cross
    Posts
    1,287

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Beer/whiskey on stage or in the auditorium= Fiddle
    No beer/whiskey on stage/auditorium= Violin
    Hereby & forthwith, any instrument with an odd number of strings shall be considered broken. With regard to mix levels, usually the best approach is treating the mandolin the same as a cowbell.

  6. #6
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    8,347
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    ....More fiddle players will have a fine tuner on every string than classical players, who more often have only one on the E string...A girl with red hair that plays a fiddle will find that her hair turns auburn if she plays a violin.
    I've noticed that too -- why is it that the classical players don't want fine tuners on G, D or A? Saving weight???

    Good observation on the hair color thing.....
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  7. #7
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    I've noticed that too -- why is it that the classical players don't want fine tuners on G, D or A? .

    Some violinists claim that they can hear a tonal difference between a string that goes through a metal mechanical tuner to the tail piece, and one that goes directly to the tail piece. They feel the extra effort working those friction pegs is worth the "authenticity" of the tone. That is what I have heard anyway.

    Similar, I suppose, to those who claim a difference in mandolin tone between a one piece bridge and a two piece adjustable bridge - metal in the path.

    Like everything else there is perhaps something to it, and there is also probably, at least in some cases, a little snoot factor with some classical musicians, and a little anti-snoot with some fiddlers.

    I know a very accomplished fiddler who also eschews the G, D, and A tuners, claiming improved tone. But he is the first to tell you a fiddle is a violin that never graduated high school.

    Another difference I have seen is that fiddlers tend to leave the rosin that the strings scrape off the bow and drop on the body just north of the bridge, while most violinists clean their violin body free of rosin. I have heard it said that this is because traditionally many fiddlers went through bad times and couldn't always afford rosin for the bow, so they could use what was stockpiled their next to the bridge. I don't believe this at all.

    I know fiddlers who clean their instruments of rosin build up, but I don't know any violinists who leave it there.

    I don't think any violinists will put a rattle snake rattle in their instrument, but by the same token I don't think too many fiddlers will wear formal evening wear at a concert.


    Regarding synchronized bowing in ensemble playing. This is required of violinists. Not so much fiddlers, with the exception of Western Swing, where I see it a lot.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  8. #8
    Registered User pefjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    678

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    There is a difference and anyone that has ever played fiddle in the South knows this. A Violin has strings and a fiddle has strangs.
    I have the world in a jug, and the stopper in my hand.

  9. #9
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by pefjr View Post
    There is a difference and anyone that has ever played fiddle in the South knows this. A Violin has strings and a fiddle has strangs.



    You play the fayddle at a squore daynce.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  10. #10
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    fiddle (n.)
    late 14c., fedele, earlier fithele, from O.E. fiðele, which is related to O.N. fiðla, M.Du. vedele, Du. vedel, O.H.G. fidula, Ger. Fiedel; all of uncertain origin, perhaps from M.L. vitula "stringed instrument," which is perhaps related to L. vitularia "celebrate joyfully," from Vitula, Roman goddess of joy

    violin
    1570s, from It. violino, dim. of viola (see viola).

    viola
    tenor violin, 1797, from It. viola, from O.Prov. viola, from M.L. vitula "stringed instrument," perhaps from Vitula, Roman goddess of joy


    So there you have it.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  11. #11

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    My 14 year old son asked me the difference between a fiddle and violin just a few weeks ago and when I said, "Same instrument, different music and style", we got to wondering if there were any other instruments that changed their name based on the musical genre. The only ones we came up with were really just dialects -- gitar vs guitar. Can anyone else think of other instruments that have a completely different name based on the music they are playing?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    i don't split hairs too much. If it start life as a "Strad pattern" or some other, it's a violin. You can play fiddle tunes on it. If it started life as a cigar box, that's a fiddle.

    The fine tuner thing: Steel strings are a bear to tune without fine tuners. Rope-core, Synthetic core or anything imitating, or true gut strings, have more stretch, so you'd maybe only need a fine tuner on the E.

  13. #13
    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,379

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    We always say a violin sings and a fiddle dances.
    --------------------------------
    1920 Lyon & Healy bowlback
    1923 Gibson A-1 snakehead
    1952 Strad-o-lin
    1983 Giannini ABSM1 bandolim
    2009 Giannini GBSM3 bandolim
    2011 Eastman MD305

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Conneaut Lake, PA
    Posts
    4,147

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    A lot of classical players call their violins "fiddles" in casual conversation, at least in my experience. "Fiddle" comes from the medieval stringed instrument "fiedel", similar to a rebec. "Violin" is a variant of "viol", representing another family of stringed instruments. The violin is not descended from either but actually was an independently developed instrument considered an improvement over other stringed instruments of the period. The bass is a direct descendant of the viol family, having sloped shoulders; the violin, having round shoulders, is not. It is rather surprising that the term "fiddle", relating to the violin, has survived so long representing as it does a basically obsolete type of instrument. So I think "fiddlers" should do whatever suits them as far as sound and playability are concerned.

    As far as instruments changing name according to style, I can't think of any others off the top of my head, but I play lap harp and I think it is funny that classical harp players are called "harpists" while folk harp players are called "harpers".

    Now that you have way too much information, I will also add that the main reason classical players don't use fine tuners except on E is that they usually use gut or Perlon strings for GDA, which are too stretchy for fine tuners to be any use. They are also often too thick to fit in the fine tuner slots. E strings are steel, therefore the tuners are useful. Many fiddle players (along with beginning level classical players) prefer for all of their strings to be steel, which means all of them can be tuned with the fine tuners. For the record, I play old time fiddle but prefer Perlon stings and a classical bridge.
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

  15. #15
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 mpc from NGC224, upstairs
    Posts
    10,054

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Milne View Post
    Beer/whiskey on stage or in the auditorium= Fiddle
    No beer/whiskey on stage/auditorium= Violin
    Playing with fun in easy clothing = Fiddle
    Playing under pressure in stiff starched frock coat = Violin
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  16. #16

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by demotlj View Post
    My 14 year old son asked me the difference between a fiddle and violin just a few weeks ago and when I said, "Same instrument, different music and style", we got to wondering if there were any other instruments that changed their name based on the musical genre. The only ones we came up with were really just dialects -- gitar vs guitar. Can anyone else think of other instruments that have a completely different name based on the music they are playing?
    small, guitar-like, 4 and 5c instruments have a variety of names - depending on where they came from where they were adopted. a small vihuela in medieval/renaissance spain became a charango in 20th cent. south america - a cavaquinho or braguinha in portugal became a ukulele in hawaii

  17. #17
    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    south florida
    Posts
    2,820

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    I've noticed that too -- why is it that the classical players don't want fine tuners on G, D or A? Saving weight???
    No, it's because they're not needed when using synthetic (or, more rarely nowadays, gut) strings. The tuning peg is enough. A metal string, OTOH, benefits from the fine tuner because the slightest turn of the peg creates a much wider variance in pitch than with a synthetic or gut string. Thus the exact pitch is harder to get and maintain without a fine tuner. The violin's E string is just about always metal, though.

    bratsche
    "There are two refuges from the miseries of life: music and cats." - Albert Schweitzer

    GearGems - Gifts & apparel for musicians and more!
    MandolaViola's YouTube Channel

  18. #18
    Registered User Rodney Riley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Effingham IL
    Posts
    1,307

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    My Granddaughters violin teacher explained the difference of the violin and fiddle... "About a $1,000.00."

  19. #19

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bratsche View Post
    No, it's because they're not needed when using synthetic (or, more rarely nowadays, gut) strings. The tuning peg is enough. A metal string, OTOH, benefits from the fine tuner because the slightest turn of the peg creates a much wider variance in pitch than with a synthetic or gut string. Thus the exact pitch is harder to get and maintain without a fine tuner. The violin's E string is just about always metal, though. bratsche
    also shows everyone you're serious

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    N. Calif.
    Posts
    1,100

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle?
    No one cries when you spill beer on a fiddle.
    Fiddles
    Arches F4 / Newson F5
    Crump B1 / Old Wave GOM

  21. #21

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    These two posts pretty well cover it.

    They are the same instrument. There is some times a difference with the set up between an instrument used for classical music and an instrument used for bluegrass-old time music. Some fiddle players like a flatter curve on the bridge to make double stops easier to play and a lot of fiddle players use all metal strings and like to have a tailpiece with fine tuners for all four strings.

    No, it's because they're not needed when using synthetic (or, more rarely nowadays, gut) strings. The tuning peg is enough. A metal string, OTOH, benefits from the fine tuner because the slightest turn of the peg creates a much wider variance in pitch than with a synthetic or gut string. Thus the exact pitch is harder to get and maintain without a fine tuner. The violin's E string is just about always metal, though.


    The term fiddle is interchangeable with violin, so this probably depends on who you ask. In our case, a violin becomes a fiddle when it receives a "fiddle setup". This should always entail flattening the profile of the bridge, and in many cases cover other aspects as well. String choice, string height, sound post adjustments, etc... Good violin shops will know what you mean by a "fiddle setup".

    I find more and more "Fiddle players" are moving to perlon (synthetic) strings vs steel. Perlon strings are very stretchy. The fine tuners do not help nearly as much with the perlon strings. The perlon strings give a warmer tone, where the steel strings tend to be more nasal sounding (which is appropriate at times).
    Robert Fear
    http://www.folkmusician.com

    "Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
    " - Pete Seeger

  22. #22

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    If you've got adequately functional tuners, no need for fines on synthetics--only with steel core

    I always regarded "fiddle" as a style of playing a violin

  23. #23
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    24,807
    Blog Entries
    56

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by demotlj View Post
    Can anyone else think of other instruments that have a completely different name based on the music they are playing?
    drums versus percussion

    person who plays the flute - a floutist, or a fluter.

    bowl back mandolin, tater bug mandolin

    PA versus sound system

    Singer versus vocalist
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  24. #24

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by demotlj View Post
    Can anyone else think of other instruments that have a completely different name based on the music they are playing?
    As Jeff points out, there are many more colloquial and other "informal" names of most instruments (although, piano is one with a mostly singular identity--it comprises a keyboard, but a piano (forte) is a piano...even in the world of synths....there are different kinds of piano sounds, but its main nomenclature is piano).

    Apart from violin/fiddle...not so much signified by "style" of play or genre but by other etymologies--horns a few, guitars a few, free-reeds several, and "doublebass" probably the most. I think mandolin has but one (unless we also include "little guitar thingie," banjo, or ukulele )

    but yeah, the most discrete and well-known are violin/fiddle, i suspect

  25. #25
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 mpc from NGC224, upstairs
    Posts
    10,054

    Default Re: Violin or fiddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by demotlj View Post
    other instruments that have a completely different name based on the music they are playing?
    accordion vs box
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •