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Thread: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

  1. #1
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    Default Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    I've got a Martin OM kit (one of the cheap seconds that was advertised here recently) that I'm building as a bouzouki. I've completed the neck/fretboard and have assembled the rim. I've finished the sound board bracing but have not yet installed the bridge plate.

    Here's a question. How would a floating bridge/tailpiece setup work on an X-braced Martin style top?

    Insights would be most welcome.
    Steve



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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Go with the floating bridge as it will be much easier to nail down the placement of the bridge in relation to the 12th fret--your intonation will be much easier.. I have seen a couple of builds by first timers or the occasional builder result in mediocre to poor playing instruments because of a lack of concern for this factor. You will enjoy playing up the neck with the ability to play in tune with a floating bride as a fixed bridge needs to be exact and can have a negative effect even if off only a quarter of an inch.

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    Registered User Bob DeVellis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Not well, I suspect. An X-braced top is intended for the torque a pin bridge will generate rather than the simpler up-and-down action (although that's a simplification) of a floating bridge. I just don't think a floating bridge would drive the top nearly as well. Others with more expertise will no doubt chime in and correct me if I'm wrong about this.
    Bob DeVellis

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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    I have a carved top/back f-style OM with X-bracing and floating bridge, built in 2005. Holding up great and it drives it plenty well. This is my Tom Jessen OM that I've mentioned numerous times on this board, which draws complaints sometimes from others I jam with as being too loud.

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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Thanks for the replies. Bob, that's what I suspect too--and that's why I asked. Mandobart, that's one beautiful OM. My kit, however, is a flat top, not a carved top. It has in induced arch, of course. So, I'm not sure the fine performance of your OM is a parallel here.

    I think I can get a fixed bridge placed correctly. It's just that I like ease of fine tuning intonation and action of the floating bridge. Anyone else have an observation?
    Steve



    "They're approaching. That's very forward of them."

  6. #6

    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    I'm with Bob on this -- do the pin bridge for a traditionally x-braced flattop. Intonation should be easy enough to set -- you just have to make sure you measure correctly and make sure you can fine tune the saddle top forwards and back by shaping it to get intonation right on target.

    If you were going to do a floating bridge, though, you could probably remove almost half or more of the extra bracing after the "big x" and be good to go. Floating-bridge tension needs far less bracing in general since the tension isn't trying to belly the top towards the neck.

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    Registered User Leroy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    I built an eight string jumbo guitar about 8 months ago originally intending to use a fixed bridge, but changed my mind during construction and used a floating bridge/saddle with a tailpiece. This all came about after the body was finished. I had built the sound board with a normal X bracing configuration and bridge plate. It sounds beautiful with ringing trebles and booming bass.

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    Sound board construction

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    Body construction

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    Please click here to view more photos and read some short explanations for this instrument.

    I did a quick and dirty sound sample.

    I've used X braced flat tops on Irish bouzoukis with excellent results.

    Steve, you should get similar results.
    Leroy Beal

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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Thanks, Jake and Leroy for the replies. Leroy, that was nice of you to post the pics and sound clip. That guitar sounds real nice, and that's some serious spalting on the sides and back.

    Jake, would there be an advantage soundwise to pulling out some of the bracing?
    Steve



    "They're approaching. That's very forward of them."

  9. #9
    gary nava; luthier GarY Nava's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    For what it's worth, here are my thoughts- if you go with the X bracing and a floating bridge make sure that the feet of bridge are supported by the X.
    Cheers Gary

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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Thanks Gary. That's helpful.
    Steve



    "They're approaching. That's very forward of them."

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    Registered User otterly2k's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Not an expert, but I agree with Bob and Jake. My thinking is that the bracing for a flattop is designed to support the pin bridge with upward pulling pressure. A floating bridge creates downward pressure that could sink a top that doesn't have the structural advantage of having either a carved or induced arch. Also (more experienced builders chime in?) wouldn't 8 strings result in more pounds of pressure (either way) than the guitar bracing is designed for?

    (as an aside... I responded to that same ad for kids and never got a reply... then it disappeared. could you PM me with the seller's info, as I'm still interested...thx)
    Karen Escovitz
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Hi Karen,

    PM sent.
    Steve



    "They're approaching. That's very forward of them."

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    Registered User pfox14's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    You do have to consider the differences in pressure and torque between the two styles of bridges. As mentioned, an X-braced top is designed to withstand the torque (upward pulling pressure) of a fixed pin bridge, but no the downward pressure of a floating bridge, unless the ends of the floating bridge are resting right on top of the X. You'll have to check the spacing of the X to see if you can use a floating bridge and not cause the top to cave in. If the spacing is not just right, then I would use a pin bridge.
    Visit www.fox-guitars.com - cool Gibson & Epiphone history and more. Vintage replacement mandolin pickguards

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    Registered User Leroy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Sorry, duplicate post.
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    Leroy Beal

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  15. #15
    Registered User Leroy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Quote Originally Posted by pfox14 View Post
    You do have to consider the differences in pressure and torque between the two styles of bridges. As mentioned, an X-braced top is designed to withstand the torque (upward pulling pressure) of a fixed pin bridge, but no the downward pressure of a floating bridge, unless the ends of the floating bridge are resting right on top of the X. You'll have to check the spacing of the X to see if you can use a floating bridge and not cause the top to cave in. If the spacing is not just right, then I would use a pin bridge.
    That's hogwash. I've used floating bridges on standard X braced tops with great success. My 8 string guitar as I've mentioned, my Dultar, and my teardrop flat topped Irish bouzouki.

    Dultar

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    Teardrop Irish Bouzouki

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    It would be easy to widen the stance of a floating bridge, but I have never had any problems when they are only resting on the bridge plate area.

    I've shown 3 examples of successfully using this top bracing method. I'm coming from my personal experience. If anyone has photos or videos of an instrument that has failed, please show us.
    Last edited by Leroy; Apr-20-2012 at 5:10pm.
    Leroy Beal

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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Dang, Leroy, that sounds good! I'm very impressed. Since mine is such an inexpensive kit, I think I'm going to go ahead and try the floating bridge. I was likewise thinking that I could refit it to a pin bridge if I didn't like it. Thanks for addressing that. Good stuff.
    Steve



    "They're approaching. That's very forward of them."

  17. #17
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Floating bridge or pin bridge on a Martin kit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy View Post
    I built an eight string jumbo guitar about 8 months ago...It sounds beautiful with ringing trebles and booming bass...
    Leroy - I'd love to hear that guitar!

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