Vincenzo Miroglio & F.Glio banjolin - any info?

[HeimBrent]

Hi! Got this little thing dirt cheap a few years ago, but I can't seem to find any more information about it. I know that instruments were made under this name from 1930-1960, and I seem to remember having seen something about this model being made pre WWII, so it fits into this segment of the board as far as I know.

The question is; does anyone have any information about it? The label is pretty sparse when it comes to info:

Premiata Fabrica Instrumenti Musicali A Corda
Vincenzo Miroglio & F.Glio
Sicilia Catana Italia

[pfox14]

Never seen another one like it.

[Jim Garber]

the label should read "Vincenzo Miroglio & Figlio" -- "...& Son" That seems to be using the almost ubiquitous German-made Marcelli tailpiece but it still could have been made in Catania, Siciily or certainly sold there.

[John McCoy]

...
Vincenzo Miroglio & F.Glio

FWIW, I don't know whether this will help or not, but the label has probably deteriorated and likely originally read, "Vincenzo Miroglio & Figlio" ("Vincenzo Miroglio and Son").

== John ==

[HeimBrent]

Nope. It syss F.Glio. I'll try to take a picture.

[Jim Garber]

Nope. It syss F.Glio. I'll try to take a picture.

Yes, you are correct -- that is how it reads, however I still believe that it means Figlio, unless there is some fluent Italian speaker who knows otherwise.

[HeimBrent]

I think it's a name, but that really doesn't matter. Gli is a personal pronomen in italian, but I've never seen it used with that ending. And my italian dictionary doesn't mention the word either.

[John McCoy]

This is a bit of a puzzler, and interesting.

From what I've been able to come up with, HeimBrent, we're both right, but your photo makes it obvious that you're righter (is that a word?)

The label clearly reads "....F.^GLIO"

In Italian, this is a standard formulation for an abbreviation, much as we might abbreviate "thirty-ninth" as 39^th. In Italian, the style is: (1)first letter of word; (2)optional period; (3) last syllable, superscripted and underscored. Thus, "primo" (first) can appear as P.^mo.

It's entirely possible, then, that Miroglio partnered with someone named F????glio. I talked with a friend who was born and raised in Italy; he knows of no surname that begins with "F" and ends with "glio," but so many names are region-specific that I wouldn't want to draw a definitive conclusion. (And he's from nowhere near Catania.) He volunteered, though, that companies in Italy sometimes include abbreviations in their names just to add some visual interest to what would otherwise be a nothing but a series of words.

So I did some poking around on the web. I found a few references to Vincenzo Miroglio & Fglio ("V... M... & Son") and to Vincenzo Miroglio & Figli ("V... M... & Children" [plural]). That would make it seem that initially he had just one son working with him, but when another offspring joined the firm he changed the name to reflect that.

And, I came across some brief comments from 2007 about the company on an Italian lutherie site.

This entry refers specifically to Miroglio mandolins, so it's probably only tangentially helpful in sussing out information on your instrument. Here's my translation of what I found, though I can't vouch for the reliability (especially since the part about "dozens and dozens" seems hyperbolic) of the posting:

"The Vincenzo Miroglio Company was founded in 1908 in Catania and continued the business Vincenzo's father, Giuseppe, had founded in 1862. Taking over, the children and grandchildren (the last of whom is Gaetano, born in 1934, no longer active) kept the company alive until a few years ago.

For nearly 70 years the company was very active commercially, working primarily in the north of Italy and abroad, like dozens and dozens of other Catania-based "semi-handcraft" luthiers.

All of these companies placed beside their production models a small number of pieces of better quality (more from the aesthetic point of view than that of sound).

Bear in mind that these companies, during the period when they flourished, worked in concert with a thriving industry that supplied raw materials, partially completed components (boxes, handles, inlays), and services (sawmill, finishing). So it is probable that only the soundboard and final assembly can be attributed to Miroglio...."

Does this help at all? Probably not, since you have a banjolin.

== John ==

[Schlegel]

It's Figlio. The abbreviation doesn't save much in the way of letters but serves as an excuse to shrink the letters which is the real space saver. It de-emphasizes the son part so the name can be bigger and still have everything fit. This is not the first time this custom has caused confusion. You should have seen how long it took us to twig that ""G.nro & A.lle" was "Gennarro and Achille". In that case they wanted to make sure the family name "Vinnaccia" was nice and big.

[Jim Garber]

Here is a violin by "Liuteria Artistica Vincenzo Miroglio & Figlio".

A label from a guitar (blue label) and a label from a copy of a Embergher mandolin (red label) made by this company.

Does that settle this?

[HeimBrent]

Does this help at all? Probably not, since you have a banjolin.

== John ==

It helps more than anything I've been able to find. Thanks

[Martin Jonas]

The operative phrase in the useful summary of the Miroglio shop posted by John is "All of these companies placed beside their production models a small number of pieces of better quality (more from the aesthetic point of view than that of sound)."

Miroglio was one of the main mass-market Catania-based instrument makers (and "dozens and dozens" is indeed a fair description), and provided a fair proportion of the low-end market for Italian bowlbacks, especially in Central Europe. My mother joined a mandolin orchestra in Cologne in the early 1950s and was told she needed a bowlback (she had inherited a German flatback from her father, my grandfather). The musical director then arranged for her to buy a second-hand Miroglio, which was her "good" mandolin for the next several decades. This was a vaguely Embergher-esque bowlback with a mix of Roman and Neapolitan features, but while it looked very nice (and came with a very nice case), its tone was always thin and tight and it never opened up properly. Frankly, my grandfather's flatback was the better mandolin tone-wise. Unfortunately neither is in good playing shape at the moment; I should probably take some time fixing them.

Martin

[brunello97]

Here is a violin by "Liuteria Artistica Vincenzo Miroglio & Figlio".

A label from a guitar (blue label) and a label from a copy of a Embergher mandolin (red label) made by this company.

Does that settle this?

Nice to see that Vincenzo got his other child(ren) into the business as well!

Martin, I didn't know that your mando-heritage went back TWO generations. That is awesome. I'd love to hear more about his experience/context in playing should you ever find the time.

Mick

[Martin Jonas]

Martin, I didn't know that your mando-heritage went back TWO generations. That is awesome. I'd love to hear more about his experience/context in playing should you ever find the time.

Mick,

Not much to say on that -- my grandfather died in 1948, when my mother was seven. I don't think his playing ever amounted to much, at least on mandolin. As far as I know, he bought the flatback mandolin second-hand along with a small mandolin tutor (by A. Alberti) intending to teach himself. I still have the tutor, and it has a stamp in it from a music shop in Wiesbaden. As the family was evacuated in around 1941 from Cologne to near Wiesbaden, that suggests he bought the mandolin during the war and if so, I think it's unlikely that he ever found much time to learn. My mother eventually taught herself on that flatback, and with that Alberti tutor, but only some years after his death.

I believe my grandfather may have been playing guitar for longer than mandolin, as he and my grandmother were active in the Wandervogel in the 1920s and I remember my grandmother as a very good concert zither and reasonable guitar player from family gatherings in the 1970s.

Martin

[HeimBrent]

Thanks for the help The only thing missing is a closer dating of my actual instrument, but I guess that's difficult to say with the low amount of information out there.