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Thread: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I've got a customer who has a very nice mid 20s Gibson snakehead A mandolin. It is in on the workbench for a bit of love. It is not a museum piece, but it is a great working instrument owned by a player who gigs a couple of hundred days a year all over the country. There are no side dots on the unbound fingerboard. He asked about putting some in- a very tasteful pearl dot that matches the vibe of the fingerboard top dot. Generally I try to not do any non spec modifications to vintage instruments, but he has a point. If you just play alone in a quiet bedroom it is no big deal, but when your gig environment changes every night, it helps to be spot on. Would this be a deal breaker for the grumpy crusty crusty types around here?

    As side note, this mandolin is already in the production process with the Guild of American Luthier's and is scheduled to be released in the spring as a full blueprint.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I go with the owners right to have anything done to his instrument he wants, regardless of what I might think.

    Setting that aside, what do I think about it. I if it makes it more playable I would do it.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Must be an Ajr? Methinks you should do it. It'll beat the Liquid Paper side dots I put on my National Triolian tenor.
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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Must be an Ajr? ......
    Nope. Blackface, topbound in cream plastic with a plastic rosette, unbound fingerboard, 100% original, moderate play wear. 'Can't read the label, but I'd call it an A1; Spann says 1925 from the FON. Regardless of what you call it, it is the one we'd all like to have!

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    Last edited by j. condino; Sep-12-2013 at 2:31pm.

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    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I'd say go for it..The small white plastic side dot material stewmac sells would do the trick.
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    Registered User Mark Marino's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Do it. Use white side dot material-- not pearl... pearl would look out of place there.
    "If you hit a wrong note, then make it right by what you play afterwards." - Joe Pass

  7. #7

    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    grumpy crusty, boy you got that right, in spades...
    LOL


    maybe some bithchin cool green LED laser dots ala Alembic?

    actually, all wise a$$ remarks aside,
    while I understand the white/ivoroid as very Gibson, (had those on my old 35 A 50 triburst)

    I have small pearl side markers on a few Fenders teles, they are superb for sometimes catching light in low light situations as well as having a natural contrast to RW or ebony. At first glance you cant tell they arent standard white.

    Since this is not only a subtle but functional IMPROVEMENT, unless its truly a pristine collector's grade instrument, I wouldn't blink an eye, and even then, if you have informed the owner, and he makes an informed decision, ie not original, possible issue with future buyers, all the better.

    I happen to use red drafting tape, really fine line type, for marking the 17th frets and above because I like side markers too, but am waiting so I can afford ultra bright red LED's on my Rigel ....LOL

    could be worse, cubic zirconium, you know......

    as for owner mods, and imho, me as a buyer, and player, not a collector, its simple: they have to not only be done beautifully and tastefully, but I have to like them.

    That's not ego, that's what I think a great deal of buyers think about buying anything used, not just instruments. If there are many of the type available, a mod will always diminish value all other things being equal.

    Laser leds otoh......now youre talkin!

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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Been there and glad i did that.

    My '25 A is in good condition but not pristine. John Hamlett smoothed out a chip in the finger rest, did some finish touch up, filled a screw hole in the tip of the peg head, touched up the stainless steel fret ends, and put in the right color side dots. It looks completely original and exactly like those vintage A's that were made with them. i can't imagine ever regretting this helpful upgrade that will always pass as original, and appreciate his good work every time i take it out of the case.

  9. #9
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I think that it would look very nice,it's certainly a helpful addition to an old instrument & i can't seeing it detracting from the instrument's value at all,
    Ivan
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    Registered User Kerry Krishna's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    If it is what he wants and what he needs to play more accurately, and if you say 'no', he will just find someone else to do it. I would have absolutely no qualms about it.
    "Listen here Skippy. This here mandolin is older than your Grandpa, and costs more than a new Porsche, so no. No, I can't play any Whane Newton on it..."

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    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    You could do it, or offer a much more expensive preservationist method of replacing the board with a new one (radiused?!?) with all the dots desired and save the original board should he ever want to sell it in it's original state.

    The former sounds more practical. I would like to have side dots on my mandolin's board.

    Jamie
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Were it mine, I would respect the manufacturers decision to not put dots on the mando... I think Jamie's suggestion of replacing the fretboard and maintaining the old one to go with the mando when eventually sold is an excellent one. An altered mandolin is a whole lot less valuable than an unaltered mando. Even if one doesn't like the original fret board.

    That said, obviously the owner can do whatever he/she wants with the mando regardless of how it affects the value.
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I didn't even realize that a mid-1920s Gibson would not have side markers. I am pretty sure that mine does (now I must check). I would rather have side markers than one on the fretboard. Those on the fretboard I don't look at or rarely. I am a vintage hound but i say also do it and I know you will do it tastefully, James. The guy is a working musician and needs them to work. I would not think that those small inlays will downgrade the price much should he want to sell it.
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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I've added side dots to everything I ever bought that didn't have them. Obviously I'm for it.
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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Well...he changed his mind and it is back out on the road....

    Thanks for the input.

    j.

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    Registered User Kerry Krishna's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Grandcanyon, it WAS an interesting thread though eh? I had no idea folks here would have such strong opinions about this. I am learning all the time...

    And to confound everyone, how about buying some black nailpolish and a super fine 25 hair artists brush, and putting the dots on like that. I certainly can not be the only person that has done this on this Forum...
    "Listen here Skippy. This here mandolin is older than your Grandpa, and costs more than a new Porsche, so no. No, I can't play any Whane Newton on it..."

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    A temporary "test" one could apply dry transfer lettering dots, like letraset dots, if you can find an art store that has some, it's now kind of an old fashioned product. I used to sell the stuff just before them newfangled computer things sent that business down the drain. All things change.
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    My 1904 Embergher has no side dots. I was playing some Vivaldi solos in a workshop and I stuck some small dots from a Post-It on the side of the neck in the upper reaches. They didn't stick to well and fell off in the middle of my solo. I might try to get some of that luthier's blue or green tape that does not mess up the finish but sticks better than Post-Its.

    I find it very hard to look at the front of my mandolin and usually don't do that at all. In fact, I generally avoid looking unless I have too at the neck of the mandolin. I think if you play the same instrument constantly you can get used to upper positions by feel -- that is what string players do with upper positions. OTOH if you switch around -- and I switch between different types of mandolins including bowlbacks and carved ones in both long and short scales -- then I really do need the side dots. The ones on the fretboard are really for decoration, for the most part.
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Trouble with pearl side dots is you really can't buy them small enough, the 2mm ones look too large on a mandolin side.
    The white plastic is a bit smaller and looks right, but it isn't pearl.
    Anyone know where to buy pearl smaller than 2mm?

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    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    Trouble with pearl side dots is you really can't buy them small enough, the 2mm ones look too large on a mandolin side.
    The white plastic is a bit smaller and looks right, but it isn't pearl.
    Anyone know where to buy pearl smaller than 2mm?
    Make your own. If you can find metal tubing, steel preferred, with the inside diameter you want, you can make a "plug cutter" and cut your own dots with a drill press.

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    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    Make your own. If you can find metal tubing, steel preferred, with the inside diameter you want, you can make a "plug cutter" and cut your own dots with a drill press.
    Or with a piece of 2" long brass tubing beveled off to form a sharp inside edge and two Fender medium picks. One tortoise and one white if you need white. Use your fret hammer and have a piece of brass rod to push them out. Looks exactly like what Gibson used on the Loars
    Last edited by Darryl Wolfe; Sep-19-2013 at 10:05am.
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    That's a great idea Darryl!
    Timothy F. Lewis
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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I know of one major manufacturer who uses aluminum welding rod in place of mother of pearl side dots. Funny thing is that after they hit it with 220 grit sandpaper, it looks better than real mother of pearl dots.

  26. #24
    Registered User Chip Booth's Avatar
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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    I have a '24 A jr and would happily put side dots on it. These are instruments for making music, and if a minor change makes for better music than that is the most important thing.

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    Default Re: side dots on a vintage Gibson snakehead

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Marino View Post
    Do it. Use white side dot material-- not pearl... pearl would look out of place there.
    I agree. White plastic dots will look good and not take away from the vintage vibe of the mando.
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