I know this is a mandolin forum, but...

[C Dubblez]

I hadn't played my guitar since a jam a couple weeks ago, and I went to get it out last night, strummed a chord and realized the action felt a little high, and it was really low out of tune. So I start to re-tune it and something caught the corner of my eye. I see this...





Where the neck dovetails to the body is kind of yanked out and of course the two giant cracks on both sides. I'm taking it to my regular luthier next time I'm in Des Moines. (I live in Iowa City) I was just wondering if you wood/instrument scholars could tell me how this might have happened. I'm guessing it was due to the string tension and maybe a fluctuation in temperature since I was traveling with it. I think it was a little bit of a chilly night out and my house's heat was probably on when I got home, but I hadn't even taken it out of the case until last night, and it sure wasn't cracked at the jam. If this is the case, what kind of repair am I looking at? Is it a relatively simple/difficult fix and will she be OK when all is said and done? Also, what kind of things can I do to avoid this happening again? This is my first major instrument damage and I'd like for it to be the last if I have anything to do with it. I usually have a little humidifier in there, though I hadn't in a couple weeks before playing it last. Is there a special (likely expensive) case that will help protect it from this kind of thing? Just wanting to hear some talk about it, as I'm not happy about it and would like to hear what you guys think. Thanks in advance everyone, and again I'm sorry this pertains to guitars on the mandolincafe, but this is the best picker site on the web, and I'm a mandolin picker as well. Thank god my MT is still in tact.

[Pete Summers]

Just off the top of my head, that looks more like damage from hitting the neck of the instrument. Seems to me (and I am certainly no expert) that kind of damage is unlikely from just taking a guitar into a warm house from chilly weather, especially since you say you left it in the case for a while.

Could it somehow have been dropped during travel? Was it out of the case and out of sight at any time?

Seems strange to me. In any case, good luck with it. I'm sure some luthiers here can chime in on the necessary repair.

[C Dubblez]

Hmm, that's interesting. The case wasn't in the same place as I usually put it. When I got home from traveling with it I had put it in the corner of another room that no one really goes in near the front entryway of my house. It was also laying down flat when I took it out last night, which now seems strange since I set it on its side most often. I guess it could be possible that someone may have tripped on it or something and never mentioned it. This is a house with college students living in it...ones that sometimes come home stumbling. Maybe I'll ask my roommates (in a very nonthreatening way to assure accurate answers.) This adds another piece to the puzzle. Thanks for your input, Pete.

[Rroyd]

I agree with Pete; that looks like an impact injury, and a pretty hard one. Are there any marks on the neck or peghead showing any signs of a collision with a solid object? You don't have a maid (or children) who might have dropped the case down a flight of stairs, then put it back, not saying a word about it? As much damage as there is, there must be some evidence, such as scuff marks on the case or finish dings on the guitar. Weather related damage ordinarily is not that extreme.

[Rroyd]

You were posting at the same time as I was, so we now have a far more likely scenario as to the cause of the damage. You may need to come up with some sort of waterboard to find out what actually happened, but I'll guarantee you that one (or more) of them knows why your guitar now has a new configuration.

[Jim Garber]

I would tend to agree with Pete that it would take some sort of traumatic event to make those cracks, more than just temperature or humidity change. What kind of guitar is this? I am assuming that this is a steel string -- is that so?

This is a house with college students living in it...ones that sometimes come home stumbling.

Ah, more information-- that might very well explain much.

[C Dubblez]

I agree with Pete; that looks like an impact injury, and a pretty hard one. Are there any marks on the neck or peghead showing any signs of a collision with a solid object? You don't have a maid (or children) who might have dropped the case down a flight of stairs, then put it back, not saying a word about it? As much damage as there is, there must be some evidence, such as scuff marks on the case or finish dings on the guitar. Weather related damage ordinarily is not that extreme.

I really don't see any other marks anywhere else on it. It might have smacked something in its case when I was loading it in or out of the car, but I really don't think it could anything that would have damaged it as I was never worried enough to think to check. I'm definitely thinking now that something happened when I wasn't around and no one's telling me. I've yet to question the roommates yet. Man, it's a terrible feeling thinking of the things that could have happened when I'm not around. I'm now envisioning some disturbing scenarios. So you're thinking this would be from impact to the case around the neck maybe then? Very disheartening..

[C Dubblez]

I would tend to agree with Pete that it would take some sort of traumatic event to make those cracks, more than just temperature or humidity change. What kind of guitar is this? I am assuming that this is a steel string -- is that so?



Ah, more information-- that might very well explain much.

Yes, it's a steel string dreadnought. A Guild D40 Bluegrass Jubilee model.

[Bertram Henze]

OK, living in Animal House has its side effects...



Now all you've got to do is find Mr. Blutarsky

[C Dubblez]

OK, living in Animal House has its side effects...



Now all you've got to do is find Mr. Blutarsky

Haha. There were definitely no toga parties. At least not that I was invited to.

[C Dubblez]

I am experiencing the demon/angel shoulder duo about how to deal with this, though.

[C Dubblez]

So it's probably safe to say that I'm looking at a pretty penny to get her fixed then, eh?

[Willie]

Ah-ha...Maybe your roommates didn`t like your playing and this is there way to keep you from playing that awful bluegrass music....Just think what they would have done to a banjo....Tee Hee

[JeffD]

While its easy to see that the guitar was bonked somehow, its hard to asses if it was an accident, a careless accident, or worse. If nobody fesses up you have another layer of complication.

[Rroyd]

Yes, this will not be a cheap repair, but one that can be successfully done, both structurally and cosmetically. I suspect the guitar was not in the case when this happened, however, especially if you had a hardshell case, and that it was in the hands of a wannabe star when it became "altered." When you disclosed that you were living with college students, I knew you had disclosed who the culprits were. I am a college guitar instructor, and I can't recall the number of times
when a student showed up with a freshly damaged guitar that had been subjected to a roommate's
abuse. I recall one that had been sat on, and many others that had been knocked over, dropped, had heavy objects dropped on them, and other abuses to numerous to mention. "Give me that, and I'll show you how to play "Stairway to Heaven" was a pretty common scenario just before the guitar got bashed into the table or the strap popped off. Good Luck!

[JeffD]

I suspect the guitar was not in the case when this happened, however, especially if you had a hardshell case,!

I was thinking that, but didn't want to say. Because if that is what happened, someone (the same someone?) then put it back in the case.

[greg_tsam]

Maybe they thought you wouldn't notice? That really sucks but given the situation it doesn't surprise. It's hard to fess up to damaging someone else's property when they didn't have permission in the first place and costly to boot. Definitely looks like an impact versus temperature change to my uneducated eyes. Wonder if anyone will admit what really happened?

[barney 59]

Pretty common occurrence in my experience on old parlors that have been stored in (probably) an attic strung. There is a tremendous amount of tension on the sides and when something has to give well if the peghead doesn't break or the bridge doesn't pull loose then the sides blow up.Could the guitar have been parked in the case someplace that the sun hit it or maybe in a hot car?

[JeffD]

There is a tremendous amount of tension on the sides and when something has to give ?

I would have thought that the neck would have separated from the body if it was merely environmental. Maybe it depends on how the neck is joined.

[xntric]

I'm taking it to my regular luthier next time I'm in Des Moines.

I'd try to take it in sooner rather than later. The longer you wait, the more chance the sides will deform and make the repair more difficult. Don't ask me how I know

[MikeEdgerton]

If nothing else take the string tension off the instrument.

[sunburst]

Looks like I'm one of the first full time luthier/repair type people to happen along here...
Not a difficult fix, but one that requires quite a bit of work. My current crack repair price is $10 per inch, cleats are extra, depending on where they are and what it takes to get them in place. You'll need some cleats for alignment of the side cracks. Measure the cracks and add some for cleats and you have a rough idea of what to expert for the side cracks.
...Then, add a neck reset and head block repair because the head block is almost surely split. The neck will have to be removed from the guitar to glue the head block. That makes gluing the head block pretty simple, having the neck out, but Guild necks aren't easy to remove, sometimes, and a neck reset is about $350 or more.
So there you have it. For a pro repair, expect a minimum of $350 plus $10 per inch of crack plus maybe $20 to glue the head block and maybe $5 apiece for half a dozen cleats.
(You might want to find out who the culprit is, and if you're lucky it will be one of those college students with a rich Dad footing all the bills instead of one of the ones struggling to balance work and college and just trying to get by. My experience leads me to believe the former is the most likely to be irresponsible enough to cause the damage and not let you know.)

[llg]

Good luck on the repair and even more good luck on finding the culprit. I have a feeling John is on to something. Most likely someone horsing around that knows little if anything about how to play, much less the value of musical instruments. Most non-musicians are shocked to hear someone paying 300-500 for an instrument. Of course I don't want alot of people to know how many I've owned that cost 3-5 times that.
In all seriousness, good luck...might be a good idea to educate the roomies about the delicateness of musical instruments in general. Who knows, this might just cause a "break in the case"

[C Dubblez]

Thanks for the input everyone. I have a feeling that the perp was not a roommate, but maybe someone who they had come over some time. Neither of my roommates have any desire to pick up a guitar really, and I seem to remember lots of times when people come over somewhere, see a guitar case, and think they should try to show off playing a quick rendition of "Wish You Were Here" or something. I asked one of my roommates and he seemingly genuinely didn't know anything about it. My other roommate is out of town right now, but it seems very uncharacteristic that he would be behind it either. Is it possible that it could have happened while in the case at all? It really just seems so much more likely that this would have happened due to temperature fluctuation since I had just been traveling with it and the weather has been so varied from day to day her in Iowa this winter/spring. And since there are no other marks I can see on the guitar from impact. Just the neck separation and cracks. I don't know what I'm going to do as, if sunburst's estimates hold accurate, 400 dollars is almost 1/3 of the price I bought the guitar for(took a long time to gather the dough), and I just drained my account paying off my Rockygrass Academy pass. I don't have yet another 400 dollars laying around and am not sure when I will. I might even have to ask for an advance from my folks or just devote myself completely to mandolin in the meantime. I probably should regardless, being that Thile is an instructor this year. Trying to make lemonade with a guitar case of lemons right now... I am really doubting I'm going to get anyone to fess up. I did loosen all the strings right when I found out as they were pulling the cracks farther apart and the neck from the body. I'm just hoping of the best now, whatever that might be.

[C Dubblez]

I would have thought that the neck would have separated from the body if it was merely environmental. Maybe it depends on how the neck is joined.

Jeff, the neck is a little separated from the body. Here are some pictures that show that a little better. And this is with the string tension gone. There was about twice as much space between the neck and body before I released the tension..