Harmonizing "Wagon Wheel"

[argonewt]

Hi again friends. The trio I am rehearsing with is taking a crack at Old Crow's "Wagon Wheel".

It repeats A - E - F#m - D - A - E - D throughout.

My question is how would I build a harmony to this progression?
Is this why I am supposed to know Circle of Fifths?

[terzinator]

Are you trying to mimic the fiddle part? Or build your own solo?

We play this one, too... I'm afraid I don't really do a harmony, but I'll build a solo in the A scale, and maybe think about the fiddle part as I do.

[argonewt]

Are you trying to mimic the fiddle part? Or build your own solo?

I am thinking of the fiddle part, but also how I would play off what the guitar is doing during his solo...

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

If you mean playing melodic fills during the singing, then you would be interested in improvising. A recent thread that has some good info:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ht=improvising

Chris has a good starting point: you can use the notes from the A major scale to start building fills and solos, since all the chords in the song use only notes from the A major scale. Do you know where on the mando all the chord tones are for each of those chords? That's another useful starting point too.

Cheers
MRT

[journeybear]

Are you talking about instrumental or vocal input? If instrumental, when I play this with my band I just throw in little tags at the end of vocal lines, especially the third and sixth lines in the chorus - just something simple to fill in the gap. Don't want to mess with the melody, there being so little of it. My favorite is a descending scale over that D chord - D C# B A - but I try not to overdo it. Pretty standard.

[greg_tsam]

You could try playing a 3rd above or below the root.

[argonewt]

If you mean playing melodic fills during the singing, then you would be interested in improvising. A recent thread that has some good info:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ht=improvising

Chris has a good starting point: you can use the notes from the A major scale to start building fills and solos, since all the chords in the song use only notes from the A major scale. Do you know where on the mando all the chord tones are for each of those chords? That's another useful starting point too.

Cheers
MRT

AWESOME thread, Thank you! I Love this site!

Thanks all for your suggestions. Yes, I know where on the fretboard those chord tones are for A Major. Now just gotta spend the time going over everything you've suggested so far...

Greg - re: third above/below. I've played with a great harp player for some years now - sounds like what he does...

[Mandotarian]

You could try playing a 3rd above or below the root.

So could one play C# and F# chord and scale tones over the A chord?

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

So could one play C# and F# chord and scale tones over the A chord?

I might guess that he meant either a third above or below the melody notes that you are trying to harmonize with. A lot of vocal harmonies are primarily sung thirds apart, with the occasional fourth thrown in as needed. The art of creating harmonies is more subtle than any single rule, but trying thirds above or below is a good starting point.

Regarding chord tones, one possible first step to developing improvisation skills is to use chord tones from the chord at hand. During the A chords, incorporate a good amount of A, C# and/or E notes into your improvisations. On the E chord, focus a bit more on E, G#, and/or B notes, instead. Use the other A major scale tones to link them together in interesting ways. (To be clear, even during the E chord, I would primarily still use the A major scale tones, as opposed to E major scale tones). There are certainly ways to use alternate chords and modes to drive your improv, but I think to start you'd want to learn using the chord tones of the given chord and learning how to link them together, and also how to shape your melodies to lead to the next chord as well.

Cheers
MRT

[W.Texas1886]

The fiddle in the recording is tuned to a Cross A (AEAE). Maybe this will help your ear a bit?

[terzinator]

I'd heard that about the AEAE tuning, too, and have seen sheet music noting that... But I know that when we have a fiddler in our midst, they can usually play the solos in standard tuning without any problems... wonder why the AEAE?

When there's no fiddle around, I play the intro on an A-key harmonica.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

AEAE tuning allows for lots of open string drones when playing in A.

Cheers
MRT

[David]

Where I live a request for Wagon Wheel will cost you some serious change.

[farmerjones]

i sing it in D so, consequently, it gets played in D. I could see how AEAE tuning would sound good, if it were played in A. In D, i go back and forth from the high register, to the low. Otherwise it would be just broth.

[journeybear]

Where I live a request for Wagon Wheel will cost you some serious change.

Great idea! I think "Duelling Banjos" is vastly underpriced, though ...

I'll bet a lot of people could come up with similar lists that will vary regionally. Locally these would include any number of Jimmy Buffet songs, of couse. Plus lots of Skynyrd, "Brown Eyed Girl," "Amie," "You Never Call Me By My Name" - well, you get the picture! Matter of fact, at our regular Monday night gig, we are under strict orders not to play any Buffett. So tonight, playing at a different place, and getting a request, of course, we were actually able to play one - "Pencil Thin Moustache," far from the usual. Kind of nice, actually. FWIW I like "Wagon Wheel," not burned out on it yet. But too much of anything can get to be, well, too much. In fact, one reason we are so well-liked is we play different stuff from what most everyone else plays, and don't play much of the same old same old. And people, especially staff, appreciate this.

Gotta say, though, the verses don't have a dang thing to do with the chorus.

[terzinator]

Gotta say, though, the verses don't have a dang thing to do with the chorus.

Sounds like you know this already, but the verses are OCMS; the chorus was written by Bob Dylan years before.

[journeybear]

Well, yes - I just don't know what the connection is between all that rocking in the chorus and all the travelling in the verses. I think I read somewhere about the OCMS member who wrote the verses playing it as part of his pre-band solo shows; maybe had something to do with traveling around the South from gig to gig. Seems that wasn't by train, though. I don't really care, nor need to know - just wonder.

By the way, listening to the original (sounds like a bit of late night fooling around during the making of "Pat Garrett And Billy The Kid") it's impressive the finished product is as cohesive as it is. But you have to start somewhere, Dylan is cool with it, and he is probably enjoying the extra income too.

Speaking of wondering, wonder what happened to the OP and if he got his answer. I started figuring out our harmony parts but it became a bit of a chore. If that isn't what he wants I'm glad to leave it alone.

[i-vibe]

well...it would be helpful if the OP clarified their definition of 'harmony'. my initial take was that they meant "harmony" as it pertains to chord/scale relations and perhaps they were asking how best to navigate over the chord progression.

of course they could easily mean playing a harmonized line over the fiddle part.

...or a vcl harmony

......or the best way to play it on a Harmony mandolin

..........or the best way to play it on a Harmony gtr

...........or....

[Dave Greenspoon]

Hi again friends. The trio I am rehearsing with is taking a crack at Old Crow's "Wagon Wheel".

It repeats A - E - F#m - D - A - E - D throughout.

Wow. Wagon Wheel in A. You must have a real bluegrass singer or something in that trio. I find it hard enough to sing it in G. I totally get it in A; how else was Dylan going to throw in that F#m? And you can likely find the OCMS gig on Austin City Limit's website from a couple/few years back.

G - D - Em - C - G - D - C

[Mandobart]

I like this version:



It's really a good song, originally by Bob Dylan, fleshed out and worked up by OCMS. But...gettin' kinda overdone in my neck of the woods.

[journeybear]

Wow. Wagon Wheel in A. You must have a real bluegrass singer or something in that trio. I find it hard enough to sing it in G.

But ... but ... but ... Old Crow do it in A; hence, so do a lot of people (including us). I think that's all the OP meant as far as that goes. But, then, ain't heard from him in a while. Must be practicing real hard ...

[Rob Gerety]

But...gettin' kinda overdone in my neck of the woods.

Understatement of the century.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Well,i'd never heard or 'heard of' Wagon Wheel in deepest,darkest UK before this thread,but i think it's the best thing i've heard in a loooooong time !!. We could seriously do with some more of this style of music (IMHO) instead of all the 'techno-picker' /'' listen to me ain't i great'' stuff so many younger bands seem to be playing - or maybe that's just the way 'it seems to me'. I love the whole 'feel' of this style of music,it seems to hark back to the old Jug band era - uncomplicated,rhythmic & involving for the listeners - bring it on !,
Ivan

[adgefan]

Well,i'd never heard or 'heard of' Wagon Wheel in deepest,darkest UK before this thread
Ivan

That surprises me, I hear this song at just about every jam at every festival I go to! It's become the new Duellin' Banjos, dividing pickers between those who love it and those who simply refuse to play it.

[journeybear]

I'm on the + side with it, even though my band plays it every gig. Part of that is because I think we have made it our own somehow, part of it is because people seem to like it so well and playing it produces a happy vibe, part of it is because it's a pretty good song - maybe not a great song, but surely good enough (even with the lyrical disconnect I mentioned). However, when I am with the cajun/country/bluegrass band, I find requests for it rather annoying. It doesn't fit in with what we're playing, not really. We could work it up and make it work, I suppose, and may yet - that would probably mean me working up the lyrics - but meanwhile, the requests come from left field from people who aren't paying attention.

I have a theory about its popularity. It has a comfortable tempo with an old-timey feel, and is the only song I can think of at the moment that uses the chord progression that defines our times, the 1 5 6m 4 progression that keeps showing up in so many popular pop songs during the last decade. Since so many people have heard this progression so often lately, and apparently can't get enough of it as it keeps being provided in more and more forms, and since this song presents it in this loping, easy-going manner, with its tempo and instrumentation, when people encounter a band with similar instrumentation, they are drawn to thinking of this song. I bet the drug reference helps, too. A lot of people seem to like songs which mention various forms of naughty behavior.

Anyway, that's my theory. I think OCMS really lucked out with this one - just the right song at just the right time.