Who's Left?

**barney 59** · Mar-30-2012, 5:46pm

With the passing of Earl Scruggs I started thinking about who's left that were original early Bluegrassers'. I'm not sure how one would define a "1st Generation" Bluegrasser. I think maybe someone that came out between 1945 and 1952--55? Would someone like Frank Wakefield or Ronnie Reno be 1st generation or did they just miss?

So for sure you've got Ralph Stanley
There's Mac Martin, he started in the very early 50's and is still going strong.
I think of Jessie McReynolds as an original.
Some I don't even know if they are still alive,like Bill Harrell and Mac Wiseman for example.

**Mike Bunting** · Mar-30-2012, 5:53pm

Originally Posted by barney 59

With the passing of Earl Scruggs I started thinking about who's left that were original early Bluegrassers'. I'm not sure how one would define a "1st Generation" Bluegrasser. I think maybe someone that came out between 1945 and 1952--55? Would someone like Frank Wakefield or Ronnie Reno be 1st generation or did they just miss?

So for sure you've got Ralph Stanley
There's Mac Martin, he started in the very early 50's and is still going strong.
I think of Jessie McReynolds as an original.
Some I don't even know if they are still alive,like Bill Harrell and Mac Wiseman for example.

I think you mean Don Reno. How about Melvin Goins and the Osbornes as working first generation guys.

**Wolfboy** · Mar-30-2012, 9:14pm

Originally Posted by barney 59

Some I don't even know if they are still alive,like Bill Harrell and Mac Wiseman for example.

Bill Harrell died in 2009; Mac Wiseman is still living, don't know how active he is though.

Have to add Curly Seckler, who appears to still be performing some at age 90 (!) according to his website.

**Willie** · Mar-30-2012, 9:14pm

Bill Harrell is no longer with us, but I wouldn`t consider him as a first generation bluegrasser....

**barney 59** · Mar-30-2012, 9:59pm

Originally Posted by Mike Bunting

I think you mean Don Reno. How about Melvin Goins and the Osbornes as working first generation guys.

No I meant Ronnie, He was a member of Reno and Smiley almost from the get go. It seems like he's been around for 50 years.That is what I was trying to determine what is 1st generation? When is the cut off? I think of Frank Wakefield as 2nd generation but he's been around so long and started so young he didn't miss it by much. When I thought about it I also realized that Bill Harrell was a little later, like late 50's early 60's. So what do we have?
Mac Wiseman, Curly Seckler, Mac Martin and Ralph Stanley.

**mrmando** · Mar-30-2012, 10:18pm

Bobby Osborne, Sonny Osborne, Jesse McReynolds.

What's the cutoff year for Blue Grass Boys? Bobby Hicks is still around, isn't he? I would've considered Baker a first-generation player.

**allenhopkins** · Mar-30-2012, 10:50pm

Other suggestions:
Everett Lilly
Paul Williams
Donna Stoneman (1956 on Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts -- borderline "first generation")
"Little Roy" Lewis (started at age nine in the early 1950's)
Eddie Adcock (began 1953)
Bill Clifton (playing since 1949)
Frank Wakefield (started working with Red Allen in 1952)
Bill Yates (Country Gentlemen/Red Allen & Kentuckians bass player)
Haskell McCormick (early '50's -- borderline)

Again, the definition of "first generation" may be elusive -- or elastic.

**Don Stiernberg** · Mar-30-2012, 11:03pm

Didn't Bill Monroe hire Sonny Osborne when Sonny was 14?

**allenhopkins** · Mar-30-2012, 11:05pm

Originally Posted by Don Stiernberg

Didn't Bill Monroe hire Sonny Osborne when Sonny was 14?

Yes, in 1952.

**Gail Hester** · Mar-31-2012, 2:12am

Ralph Stanley

**fatt-dad** · Mar-31-2012, 5:37am

. . . and Doug Dillard.

f-d

**trainmaster** · Mar-31-2012, 8:02am

Del McCoury
Doyle Lawson
JD Crowe
I think these also qualify, although I'm not sure when they started.

**Big Joe** · Mar-31-2012, 8:53am

Herschel Sizemore is certainly an early grasser. Paul Williams was listed as well. Two of my favorite people and mandolin players. I think these may have been late first or early second generation. Not too many of the originals still around. Even the Osborne's are more like second generation.

**Wolfboy** · Mar-31-2012, 9:00am

Originally Posted by trainmaster

Del McCoury
Doyle Lawson
JD Crowe
I think these also qualify, although I'm not sure when they started.

I would call all three of those second-generation (or "first-and-a-half" generation, anyway); Del got his start with Bill Monroe in the early 60s IIRC, and Doyle and J.D. both got their start with Jimmy Martin about the same time, or in any event well after Martin had established himself as part of the "first generation" with Monroe's Blue Grass Boys in the early 50s and gone on from there to lead his own band. Not to take anything away from the accomplishments of any of them, but they weren't there when the style was first being defined in the mid-40s to early 50s, as were Ralph Stanley, Curly Seckler and some of the others mentioned in this thread so far.

**mandobassman** · Mar-31-2012, 10:05am

Maybe Larry Sparks. Started with the Stanley Bros.

**Wolfboy** · Mar-31-2012, 11:19am

Originally Posted by mandobassman

Maybe Larry Sparks. Started with the Stanley Bros.

He did, but not until the mid-60s, right before Carter died, and he was in his early 20s then IIRC - so again, he's too young to have been in at the founding of the genre.

**rbvintage** · Mar-31-2012, 11:20am

This is not only a thought provoking topic; it's also very appropriate for those of us who've grown with BG, to begin to make peace with these folks who carried a heavy load to create and nurture our musical genre! Sorting through those early years and trying to separate the 1st gen. from those who greeted me when I started watching and picking (1962-ish), is tough.

To add to what you all have said, I've a couple of, perhaps, borderline people...definitely on my 1stGen shrine, though! First thoughts, Tex Logan...saw him at IBMA 2010; Doc Watson (maybe another borderline guy; was playing BG-ish music [mostly country and old-timey] in the mid-to-late 40's); Tom Gray (original CG; certainly 1st gen. influence!)...Thanks for this thread, Barney!

**Jeff Oxley** · Mar-31-2012, 11:29am

One more that comes to mind, though he played with the B.G. boys around the same time as Del and thus not really 1st gen, but worth mentioning because he's, indeed, still around: Peter Rowan.

Sorry for hijacking this thread...as you were!

**allenhopkins** · Mar-31-2012, 11:49am

Originally Posted by rbvintage

...First thoughts, Tex Logan...saw him at IBMA 2010...

Good find -- according to this article, Tex started working with Don Stover and the Lillys in Wheeling WV in 1949 or so. Didn't realize he'd been around that long.

**Wolfboy** · Mar-31-2012, 12:16pm

Originally Posted by rbvintage

Doc Watson

Doc's the right age to be first-generation, but interestingly enough he didn't perform or record professionally until the early 60s (he says so himself, in conversation with Merle Travis during the between-tracks studio chat on Will the Circle Be Unbroken). So he wasn't an influence on the founding of the genre, though he most certainly was on flatpicking guitar within the genre!