Unsigned Lloyd Loar mandolins

[Willie]

I don`t know what if any differences there were in the mandolins that were made shortly after Loar left Gibson but it seems that the same builders were still making them for a shprt period of time at least and it would seem that these mandolins would be just like and as good as any of the signed Loars even though they were a lacquer finish, why would or should they change anything in that short period of time? I have read some posts by F-5 Loar about how good some of the Ferns were that were made say in `25 and `26....It has also been posted on here that when a Loar was sent back for repairs years after Loar left that Gibson sprayed it with lacquer to make it look new....

Good to see Brian posting again.....

Willie

[f5loar]

I don't see any mention on the new list of which of the "unsigned" Loars had varnish or which had lacquer or which had lacquer spray over varnish.
Will is saying for sure Butch's famous unsigned Loar was all lacquer. I remember it being lacquer over varnish. Others mention overspray so obviouls it covered the labels. And was the overspray done when new or when sent back to factory for repairs? I remember Herschel had or still has a really nice April 25, 1923 F5 that had an obvious lacquer overspray. He was able to get Randy Wood to remove just the lacquer to bring it back to the orignial varnish finish. And there was another famous July 9 Loar that received an unwanted lacquer overspray in the early 50's and it's owner took care of removing the lacquer himself. Bottom line is after Loar left lots of things changed besides that little label. So many changes on up to 1942 that it's really hard to pin point consistancy in those years from 1925 to 1942. Batches were small not big like during the Loar years. Some years they only made them one at a time as ordered. Senior guys retiring and many management changes during those years too make figuring out what happened after Loar left near impossible. I think it's time for another LoarFest to get all those unsigned and early Ferns back together at one time for another close look to make sense of what did happen after Loar left. There are guys that can rub a finish and tell you if it's varnish or lacquer or something else.

[Brian Aldridge]

Also, here's an archive search showing the F5s Darryl forwarded me to be tagged as "Unsigned Loars"

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/...ns.pl?unsigned

This also now appears under "advanced searches" in the archive, in case you lose it

The FON of 81250 is listed as unknown, but it is 11985 as one might expect. Just wanted to make it official. I took the first seven or eight pics shown of 82369. The first and second were intended to show the light overspray of lacquer. This treatment does those long line checking instead of the small spider web type you see in later versions of lacquer.

[danb]

The FON of 81250 is listed as unknown, but it is 11985 as one might expect.

Updated

[Darryl Wolfe]

Butch's mandolin is lacquer over varnish. Like one of the post below (Will, I think), I have seen many many lacquer oversprayed Loars and shortly post Loar mandolins. It is my feeling that these were as posted earlier "cleaned up" for sale.

Additionally, with all the new info about these mandolins laying around for a long time, it could also be that by the time they sold, they needed shining up to look like new

[Darryl Wolfe]

We would probably be remiss not to include 73670 in the unsigned list. Many folks suggest "the label fell out" However, the mandolin has all the classic traits of a later completion. Gold hardware, larger bushings, lacquer overspray etc.

I would really really like to know the FON on this one.

[almeriastrings]

One other question... possibly in Joe Spann's area of expertise.... do the purchase ledgers from that period (or those that still exist) give any indication of where they sourced the lumber used on these instruments from?

[Darryl Wolfe]

One other question... possibly in Joe Spann's area of expertise.... do the purchase ledgers from that period (or those that still exist) give any indication of where they sourced the lumber used on these instruments from?

No, but a few surviving tidbits like this does...

[Joe Spann]

One other question... possibly in Joe Spann's area of expertise.... do the purchase ledgers from that period (or those that still exist) give any indication of where they sourced the lumber used on these instruments from?

Yes, this topic is covered in detail on pages 52 and 53 of my book. While I didn't see any surviving financial records from the Loar period (1919-1924), what I did see from 1925 and afterwards agrees perfectly with Darryl's post.