decline of the snakehead - speculations why?

[Masterbilt]

As we all know some Gibson mandos and guitars featured a "snakehead" headstock for a few years in the 1920s. (The L-5 guitar kept it a bit longer until c 1934.)

Any speculations why Gibson dropped the snakehead?

(Interestingly, some competitors such as Epiphone and Stromberg used a snakehead design on their guitars and mandos until much later.)

[Mandobar]

perhaps because Lloyd was fired?

[MikeEdgerton]

As long as we are speculating and unless someone has some documentation that I haven't seen that's all we can do, I'd say that they there are a few reasons. They weren't making a lot of money on the mandolin side at the time Lloyd left, the popularity had dropped and they may have had a boatload of necks already carved and put them back into production to get rid of them. Follow that with a desire to "modernize" the entire line and the new open book headstock came into play across the entire line. Those would be my guesses. It could also have been an attempt to go back to what sold prior to the drop off of mandolin sales to see if it got things going again but I suspect it's more like my first scenario. By the time the hard times of the 1930's hit Gibson they were building the second line instruments for sale outside the normal Gibson network of dealers (and for other retailers like Wards). Those instruments look like they were sweeping the factory floor for parts. I had an arched top guitar that was built in the mid 30's that had a bridge from a guitar that was built in the mid 20's on it and the neck of a second line flat top guitar that was built in the early 30's. They had a backlog of parts.

[pfox14]

If you take a look at my montage of pegheads here: http://www.fox-guitars.com/Gibson_De...nnovation.html - you can see all the different shapes & designs Gibson used throughout the many decades they built instruments. Some where staples like the F-style peghead and the standard tapered "open-book" PH as well. The big paddle head was in vogue during the early years then disappeared, similar to the way the snakehead came and went. Some shapes only lasted a very short time like the "stair step" PH of the late 30s and early 40s. I think it was simply a matter of changing designs as a natural evolution of the instruments from one era to the next.

[Don Grieser]

That's a great collection of headstock photos. Thanks for putting that together.

[Jim Garber]

My favorite is the moustache top L-5/K-5. Thanks, Paul. Great site!!

[barney 59]

I don't know if there were any years that they produced only snakehead mandolins but through most of the twenties they also produced paddlehead/ open book headstock mandolins. Maybe sales of snakeheads weren't all that good and paddlehead sales were good enough that they couldn't justify having two designs. Maybe the design just wasn't all that popular then. We like them now but did they like them then? Popularity now( The Griffith Loar is a Snakehead) is part of the reason the snakehead mandolins sell for a premium but also because they aren't as plentiful . Also the open book design was pretty much what they used on almost everything and was kind of a trademark design for Gibson. You could tell it was a Gibson from the back row.

[MikeEdgerton]

The snakeheads and the paddleheads were made at the same time and they obviously died off in the years after Loar left but then again the snakehead on the banjos died off at that time as the mandolins. It was obvious that at some point they modernized the line and standardized on the open book on everything but banjos. That doesn't explain whey the snakes didn't beat out the paddleheads totally though. I still go for stock over every other reason I can think of. Joe Spann's book pretty much shows they were shipping instruments built in some cases years earlier as new stock.

[Masterbilt]

Good points ... great Gibson headstock collection, Paul! It gives a good impression of the fact that Gibson tried out all kind of headstock designs over the years.
And they actually reintroduced snakehead variations - the cool but short-lived stair-step headstocks of the J-55, J-100, ES-250 models (1939-40). And later the Flying V ...

[Bill Snyder]

Am I missing something? Aren't the current a-style Gibsons snakeheads?

[Masterbilt]

Am I missing something? Aren't the current a-style Gibsons snakeheads?

correct - however I was referring to "vintage" instruments only (that's what this sub-forum is about).

[Capt. E]

The snakehead disappeared well before the crash of '29, but the popularity of mandolins was already in decline during LL's tenure. It just makes good business sense to make only one style of peghead. Gibson also started changing the hardware they used. By the 1930's they were using cloud tailpieces and Grover tuning machines as found on my '35 A-00

[MikeEdgerton]

By the 1930's they were using cloud tailpieces

That's actually really a wrong assumption. They were using the Waverly Cloud tailpiece on their less expensive instruments before 1920, through the 1920's, through the 1930's, through the 1940's and I think into the 1950's (although I could be wrong about that). Tuners by brand were switched out all over the place depending on what they were buying at the time. The Gibson style tailpiece had a few changes to the shape and logo but remained on the high end Gibson models.

1935 Gibson F5

[Jason Stein]

Did Gibson make any mandolas and/or mandocellos with a snakehead? I didn't seen any in a quick search of the archive.

[JeffD]

I would think it simple. The snakehead died off because not enough people wanted them.

[Masterbilt]

I would think it simple. The snakehead died off because not enough people wanted them.

Maybe Gibson blamed the "new" snakehead for slow mandolin sales in the mid-'20s (although I guess the market didn't want mandolins regardless of headstock shape). Or maybe an important manager at Gibson personally didn't like the snakehead and stopped it. All speculation of course.

Felix

[barney 59]

I think slow mandolin sales were a result of a taste change in the buying public. Martin came out with the 2-30 as a counter to the F5 but they were really behind the curve and the result was that only 64 were made. Sometimes the people in the middle of it have the hardest time seeing the writing on the wall. (vintage instrument dealers take note) Wasn't Loar hired to bring new life to mandolin marketing? It didn't work, even though a superior mandolin was the result,and like a coach that couldn't get his team to the playoffs he left. The 20's was about fast living,and movies and jazz and the newest dance steps. For the first time a little sleaze in your life was considered acceptable. Some of those 20's movies were down right raunchy! Sitting around a parlor playing mandolin quartets?-- not the twenties image that history projects. Gibson had been rolling out mandolins for about 20 years and maybe there were as many as were needed anyway. They made them too good, who needed to buy a new one, the old ones were still perfect! I am somewhat amazed at how many early A models there still are. Gibson adapted, they did fine with guitars (and banjos too) during the jazz age.

[Capt. E]

That's actually really a wrong assumption. They were using the Waverly Cloud tailpiece on their less expensive instruments before 1920, through the 1920's, through the 1930's, through the 1940's and I think into the 1950's (although I could be wrong about that). Tuners by brand were switched out all over the place depending on what they were buying at the time. The Gibson style tailpiece had a few changes to the shape and logo but remained on the high end Gibson models.

1935 Gibson F5

Good to know. When you are making an "economy" model, which the basic A mandolins were, you try and keep you materials as inexpensive as possible while preserving your production standards...so, you buy what is available at the time. Makes sense. I am sure it was true for wood as well as hardware.