Need Help!

[Arielle]

I'm a new mandolin player, and by new I mean, I know nothing about it. But I really want to learn. I'm a singer/songwriter of the folk variety. I play Acoustic guitar, ukulele and piano, but I love the folky sound of Mandolins. Anyway, i read online that a F style mandolin would be more suited for the folkier music. So I went to guitar center to buy one,and told the guy I need an F Style. and the guy insisted he knew what he was talking about and pointed me toward this

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...FctcMgodMjMAJQ

so I bought it but when I went home, I looked online and noticed it looked more like an A Style..so I'm really confused.

Was the guy wrong? And while we're at it, is the mandolin a good one? I didnt want to get a super fancy one, but you know, a good one with a good sound, that I can play at shows and has a good folky sign!! Please help! Any advice would be great!
(I live in a town where no one plays anything but piano, guitar or drums so asking anyone is impossible)

[allenhopkins]

I...i read online that a F style mandolin would be more suited for the folkier music...

Not really. F-model mandolins have a carved scroll, and a couple of protruding points, as part of their "rims" or sides. These additions have minimal acoustic effect. F-styles look cool, and are sort of the archetypes for bluegrass and country mandolinists, partially because Bill Monroe, Father of Bluegrass, played an F-5 Gibson. But you don't need these features to play "folkier music" -- they make very little difference in sound, anyway -- and they add to the cost of the instrument.

The main sound difference is between mandolins with two f-shaped soundholes, like your Gretsch, and those with a single oval soundhole. One is not better nor worse than the other, but they do sound different. Some think the f-hole instruments are more cutting and percussive, but don't "sustain" or ring as long as the oval-hole. Depends on the sound you want.

Where did you read that an F-style was preferable for folk music? Probably not on the Cafe...

...So I went to guitar center to buy one,and told the guy I need an F Style. and the guy insisted he knew what he was talking about and pointed me toward this (Gretsch New Yorker Supreme)...so I bought it but when I went home, I looked online and noticed it looked more like an A Style..so I'm really confused.

It is an A-model, but as suggested above, that's not a real factor in choosing your mandolin. It's all solid wood (good), heat-pressed top rather than carved (not as good, but acceptable at that price), and has a mahogany top, back and sides. Mahogany is not the "standard" for mandolins -- maple back and sides, spruce top is the usual template -- and it does as a rule produce a softer, warmer sound. Which, if you're after a "folky sound," may be all to the good.

Was the guy wrong?

Yes.

And while we're at it, is the mandolin a good one? I didnt want to get a super fancy one, but you know, a good one with a good sound, that I can play at shows and has a good folky sign!! Please help! Any advice would be great!
(I live in a town where no one plays anything but piano, guitar or drums so asking anyone is impossible)

Cafe consensus seems to be "pretty good for the price." Here's a recent thread that's quite complimentary of the all-solid-wood New Yorker model, which is what you bought. So you're probably OK --if it's decently set up. If the shop that sold it to you, doesn't know an F-model from an A-model, they may lack some expertise in mandolin set-up. Mandolins often don't come "ready to play" the way guitars do; they need tweaking of the bridge, nut, neck etc. to get proper intonation and playing "action." If it seems to be working for you, stay with it. If it sounds out-of-tune when you play on higher frets, or if the strings are difficult to press down to the fretboard, you may need some set-up help. Come back to the thread if you're finding problems, and some of the Cafe cognoscenti will offer advice -- even a free e-book on do-it-yourself mandolin set-up.

Good luck! And thanx for coming here for counsel. One thing we're not short on, is opinions!

[Tom Coletti]

Welcome to the forum, Arielle!

First off, having dealt with Guitar Center many, many times, their staff usually knows very little about mandolins and almost none of them are set up properly in the store. Plus the difference in tone between an F style and an A style body is so miniscule that many people can barely hear a difference if at all. Having said that, A styles in this range will give you better woods, construction, and finish quality, since much of the cost of an F style is spent on carving the scroll rather than towards better wood selection and hardware, so I would only consider an F-style if you like the aesthetics. But if you want better tone in a low-to-mid range, then an A-style is more bang for your buck.

I think that the main difference in mandolin construction that you should look at tone-wise is in the holes on the top of the instrument. Essentially the F-hole vs Oval-hole. An F-hole mandolin has a dry, percussive, barky sound with less sustain and few overtones, emphasizing the treble. This style is commonly associated with bluegrass, and while an F-hole mandolin can be used in folk, it may or may not give you the sound that you associate with folk.

However, I also think that for a more "folky" sound, you may wish to consider an Oval Hole mandolin, since it tends to have a warmer, darker, sweeter, mellower, and overall more "folky" sound with a rich bass, more sustain, and more overtones for a complex tone.

If you plan on playing in large groups without individual microphones, or in a situation where volume is a primary concern over toneF-hole mandolins lend themselves to large band situations since they are loud and percussive, but oval holes can provide a more balanced and rich sound for solo work or as a vocal accompaniment. Oval holes are also very nice for celtic/Traditional Irish tunes.

Here's a quick video comparing a similar F-hole and Oval Hole model, and you can get a better idea of which kind of sound you are looking for.

The Oval Hole:


The F-hole:


And here's another oval hole to further demonstrate its sound:


Hope this helps!

--Tom

[Arielle]

One one question! But first Thanks so much for your help!! I feel so much less frustrated! My question is, since i'm hoping in the future to be playing the mandolin with full bands on stage. Should I have an acoustic Electric Mandolin, or would a pickup work fine? And if yes to the pickup, are there any recommended brands?!

[Arielle]

I said thanks in my comment but thanks again!! WHere would I be able to find the info on the Mandolin set up? Is there a link?

[almeriastrings]

Drop an email to Rob:

rob.meldrum@gmail.com

I would advise against an electric acoustic in this context. Stick with the best acoustic instrument you can afford to begin with. You then have a wide choice of pickup systems later. If you buy one 'built in' you are stuck with it (more or less) and unless you are buying a pretty expensive, higher end instrument, it is not going to be one of the better types...

[8ch(pl)]

Generally, Carved top instruments with Violin style "F" holes are considered to be suited for Bluegrass Music. It doesn't matter whether it is an A or an F model. Flat top Oval (or Round) Sound hole instruments are more suited to celtic and Folk. This is not absolute. Since mandolin has only been used in irish music for a few decades, it doesn't really have tradition. I believe that many of the mandolins available in the British Isles, when celtic music started to be played on mandolin, were classical oval hole types, bowl back etc. Many British, Scots and Irish builders were and are building Flat-top, oval hole mandolins from that day until present.

If you play Folk, the instrument that you have is fine. For a future upgrade you may consider a Big Muddy (formerly Mid Missouri), a Redline Traveller, a Trinity College or another well made solid woods Flat-top with an oval sound hole. Don't be pressured to upgrade if you are happy with your instrument, but be sure to get a proper setup on the one you have. Mandolins are not Guitars, they have high tension on double strings and need good string action, especially at the nut. If the string is too high at the nut it will be very difficult to depress at the first fret.

The nice thing about flat tops is that the price is more reasonable than a carved top.

[Randi Gormley]

I'm actually curious what you told the guy at GC since he did point you to the instrument more often used for folk music than the one mostly identified with bluegrass. So before you believe the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, he may have answered your query -- "i need something to play folk music on and I want an F" with "here's the instrument you want" and then sent you over to the A. So you might want to talk to the guy again and find out if he plays mandolin, and then you can ask him about setups and picks and other stuff. He may not have given you what you asked for, but it does appear he gave you what you needed, as it were. just a thought.

[Arielle]

Okay. And last but not least I did get offered a great deal on a used but great condition ibanez m522s f style regular $299 for $150. Should I keep mine or replace it with this one

[Jim Ferguson]

Hi Arielle.........welcome to the Cafe.........my advice is to take a deep breath & rather than start selling & buying this mando or that mando......start learning on the Gretsch & consider upgrading down the road after you've learned the instrument. What you have tere is a basic entry level mandolin but one that you certainly can learn on........when the time is right & you're ready for a better quality instrument then upgrade based on all the knowledge & experience you will have gained.
To get te best from your mando......definitely take I to a professional luthier & have them "set it up" for you.
I agree with Mandolineer above......the Guitar Centre typically knows little about mandolins. I've purchased two mandos from them & there is a reason they are called The Guitar Centre & not The Mandolin Centre...
Get the most out of your new mando after set up.......have fun learning........the folks here at the Cafe are a wealth of knowledge on everything mandolin.........the discussion archive has a zillion threads to help you learn.........go to You Tube & do tons of lessons.....and lastly.......jam.....jam.....jam.........as often as possible with like minded musicians....
Peace,

[allenhopkins]

Okay. And last but not least I did get offered a great deal on a used but great condition ibanez m522s f style regular $299 for $150. Should I keep mine or replace it with this one

The Ibanez is no better than what you have, IMHO. It is an F-model, but that makes no (or very little) difference sound-wise. Both it and the Gretsch have heat-pressed solid tops; the Ibanez's is spruce, which is more "mainstream" than the Gretsch's mahogany, but the Gretsch has solid wood back and sides, while the Ibanez has maple plywood back and sides.

Remember, you're learning to play the mandolin -- not onstage gigging with it yet. Get familiar, then proficient, and when you do, you'll have a better concept of what you want in a mandolin, in terms of model, shape, amplification, sound, and price.

Typical experience is to keep one's first mandolin for perhaps a year, then go looking for something better. You may decide the Gretsch is all you'll ever need, or you may want to upgrade sooner than a year. Depends on how your learning goes and if, with a mandolin actually in your hands, you decide that it's the instrument you want to concentrate on.

[Cecily_Mandoliner]

Enjoy playing and learning the mandolin! It looks great! I've tried that one, and it sounded nice to me.
I have both an A-style and and F-style, with f-holes.
Someone at a music shop told me that the F-style was meant to project iwth the bluegrass band to be heard above the others.
I play my A-style the most, because it fits in a gig bag and it's easy to manage. People hear me pretty well.
It just so happens that my two have the acoustic-electric already, because that's what was available at the time. I have fun plugging in, but I still don't have a clue what I'm doing with an amp. I need an amp 101 class or something.
Keep on pickin'!

[belbein]

Okay. And last but not least I did get offered a great deal on a used but great condition ibanez m522s f style regular $299 for $150. Should I keep mine or replace it with this one

Run away! Run away!

[Bertram Henze]

We are, of course, well aware that "folky" sound is not really defined, at least no better than "woody" sound.

[almeriastrings]

Someone at a music shop told me that the F-style was meant to project iwth the bluegrass band to be heard above the others.

Music shops... music shops....

Given the F-style was designed roughly 30 years before bluegrass bands even existed, that would indeed have been a miracle.

In fact, they were designed with classical music in mind.

[TheBlindBard]

Welcome to the Cafe. The wealth of information here is truly amazing when you get down to it. Enjoy playing your new mando!

[Cecily_Mandoliner]

Music shops... music shops....

Given the F-style was designed roughly 30 years before bluegrass bands even existed, that would indeed have been a miracle.

In fact, they were designed with classical music in mind.

Well, that makes more sense! I take everything a sales person says with a grain of salt, and often the whole salt shaker...
I'm glad I have one of each style. Maybe I'll add a mandolin with an oval-hole to my collection some day, when MAS sets in again.

[vegas]

Hi Arielle.........welcome to the Cafe.........my advice is to take a deep breath & rather than start selling & buying this mando or that mando......start learning on the Gretsch & consider upgrading down the road after you've learned the instrument. What you have tere is a basic entry level mandolin but one that you certainly can learn on........when the time is right & you're ready for a better quality instrument then upgrade based on all the knowledge & experience you will have gained.
To get te best from your mando......definitely take I to a professional luthier & have them "set it up" for you.
I agree with Mandolineer above......the Guitar Centre typically knows little about mandolins. I've purchased two mandos from them & there is a reason they are called The Guitar Centre & not The Mandolin Centre...
Get the most out of your new mando after set up.......have fun learning........the folks here at the Cafe are a wealth of knowledge on everything mandolin.........the discussion archive has a zillion threads to help you learn.........go to You Tube & do tons of lessons.....and lastly.......jam.....jam.....jam.........as often as possible with like minded musicians....
Peace,

What he said, and welcome!

[Denny Gies]

In my humble opinion you should stick with the acoustic mandolin, oval hole and, if planning to play with a band, get a good microphone. I think pickups distort the sound, just my opinion. Also, in the long run, save your money and try to find an old Gibson A model. They have great sound, especially for a folk music setting. Good luck and have fun on your mandolin adventure.