The Chop !

**muzicfreak** · Feb-20-2004, 1:36am

So i am learning the chop.. Got some good advice the other night to not use my left hand just use my right and try to damp the sound... any other advice on how to get a chop going?
cheers
Gary

**John Flynn** · Feb-20-2004, 7:12am

I hate to say "practice." But with chopping it really comes down to that. A chop is all about timing. The right hand is certainly a key, but I have not heard of that right hand dampening technique you describe. If someone else on the board is familiar with it, I would love to hear it described in greater detail. If it works for you, great.

**duuuude** · Feb-20-2004, 11:44am

I use alot of right hand damping, a leftover from guitar I suppose, maybe not technically correct but gets the sound out there. Play whatever way you can to get the sound yer lookin for, IMWO.

**ethanopia** · Feb-20-2004, 11:54am

I'm always experiementing with my chop, when there is guitar break going it's nice to have a good percusive "chic" when there is a bunch of vocal harmony I try to add more tonal quality.

I use my left hand sometimes to accentuate the tones of a chord during a chop so it sounds less like percussion and more like a chord.

Thile has a pretty percussive sound where as someone like Doyle Lawson seems to have a more tonal chop...

But it seems like the more "modern" approch is a bit more towards the percusive side.

**Michael H Geimer** · Feb-20-2004, 12:01pm

I use a lot of right hand muting as well. Like Duuuude says, it a carry over from guitar, where I'm pretty 'heavy handed' when it comes to muting.

I use the soft edge of my right hand to color the tones, and get some dynamic variation going. I'll sometimes mute thing very severely in order to get a mostly percussive rythym going with muting the chop chords, and slapping the strings, etc. It's fun.

**Keith Wallen** · Feb-20-2004, 2:40pm

I do all the dampening with my left hand. When my right hand comes down into the strings I loosen my grip up on the left hand to deaden the strings when the right hand or pick is between the D and A strings. Then I adjust when I deaden the strings for different sounds.

**Songbird** · Feb-20-2004, 9:13pm

I'm very interested in perfecting the chop too. My chop sounds nothing like the recordings so it's going to take a lot of practice. Chris Thiles rhythm gets me every time, it's sounds like he's doing so many different things in it with the percussion, rolls etc.

**doanepoole** · Feb-20-2004, 9:26pm

Try to thinkof your instrument as a melodic snare-drum.

I think one key to chopping is the difference in time between when you strike the strings, and when you lift tension with your left hand. Expiriment with different delays, and when you get it to sound like you want, voila! There it is.

But don't be afraid to mix things into the 2--4-2-4-2-4-2-4-2-4-2-4 chop rythm. Spice it up with some runs and/or open chord strums. I find chopping excruciatingly boring, and excruciatingly necessary. Try to find a happy balance between the two.

**jasona** · Feb-20-2004, 9:31pm

Get Thile's video Songbird so you can watch him do what he does. He frequently will play a two or three finger chord, then dampen with his free left finger(s). As far as I can see, its all left hand dampening with him.

I have been drilling on timing every practice, whether I voice my chops (a la Monroe, Compton) or not (Thile, Bush frequently). Its all about practice as far as I can tell.

**levin4now** · Feb-21-2004, 8:22am

I have heard Sam Bush describe his chop for festival goers at one of his mando jams/workshops with the Dawg. I wasn't there but downloaded it from bluegrassbox.com (legally for those who aren't familiar with it!). He talks about his chop in this way...[paraphrased]: "it's almost like by the time my pick hits the strings, my left hand is 'releasing' the chord..." (sounds like what jasona said - that Bush doesn't voice his chops much), but goes on to say that Grisman let his chops ring a teensy bit more....

BTW, these 5-7 minute discussions by these guys are a really neat part of the experience - especially for a guy who has never seen Bush live.

I ought to compile those pieces for anyone who'd want to hear em.

**Songbird** · Feb-21-2004, 1:43pm

Originally Posted by (jasona @ Feb. 20 2004, 22:31)

Get Thile's video Songbird so you can watch him do what he does. He frequently will play a two or three finger chord, then dampen with his free left finger(s). As far as I can see, its all left hand dampening with him.

I have been drilling on timing every practice, whether I voice my chops (a la Monroe, Compton) or not (Thile, Bush frequently). Its all about practice as far as I can tell.

Yeah, I'm really gonna have to splash out on that video! I think it'll be easier to make a chop once I know what it looks like. The only visuals I have of mandolinists playing is a couple of songs off the Alison Krauss dvd...and I think Dan Tyminski only uses chop chords for a dobro break.

**KevinM** · Feb-23-2004, 6:29pm

Ready? Try this exercise. Put your mandolin back in its case for a minute. Put on a bluegrass record. Hold your chording hand (left presumably)in a grip and try to shape a four finger Bill Monroe "G" just for good karma. Now, squeeze and release your left hand grip IN TIME to the music. You can fake picking as well with that right hand - The pick should be hitting your strings at that instant in time your grip has tightened fully, and the sound is then instantly muffled as you release your grip - always in time to the music - you are performing a PERCUSSIVE function as well as a rhythmically musical one. The chord should barely ring - only for one solit second does your left hand clamp down fully on the strings. Voila - you're chopping. That's it. The right hand damping, IMHO, is not the way to get that sound, although it would work, but your left hand will stop the chord from "sounding" much more efficiently than your right hand (plus now your right hand is free to zoom back again the next time the left hand tightens.) Pick your mando up and try it after a few minutes of this "air chopping" and give it a whack.

**Tbone** · Feb-24-2004, 6:43pm

In the Sam Bush video, he says to fret on the 1&3, and release on the 2&4, which I never realized until I heard that. I was fretting and releasing on the 2&4. I love the 'shovel chop' - you know, like the sound a shovel makes when you drive it into the ground - a longer sound than a pure percussive sort of chop. THat's what I go for at least.