Are capos cheating

[Laird]

You need a capo when singers insist on using weird keys like Bb or Eb !!!

That's an option, but not necessary. Just slide your closed position G or C up three frets and have at it. It's been an important learning experience for me, and I've still got lots to learn. But to each his or her own.

[allenhopkins]

I guess the trick is to want to use a capo, but not to need to.

[Mike Bunting]

It looks like some of the capo-haters just aren't bothering to have the same discussion yet again.
I think it's unfair to use a term lie "capo-haters" is a loaded term to use for people who have reservations about capo use.

My capon was cheating .... A little further investigation would tell you that capons are physically incapable of cheating.

You need a capo when singers insist on using weird keys like Bb or Eb These are not weird keys.

[JeffD]

The concept of a capo hater is a straw man - easy to poke fun at, but not really existing in reality.

[Phil Vinyard]

But...but...it's so gosh darned fun to look the guitar players in the eye and say, "Capos are for sissies", and then play an A-flat chord progression in closed position.

[OldSausage]

Yeah, come on, we're not anti-capo, we're just pro-closed position playing.

[Bertram Henze]

The concept of a capo hater is a straw man - easy to poke fun at, but not really existing in reality.

...and burning brightly to keep us warm

[Laird]

Yeah, come on, we're not anti-capo, we're just pro-closed position playing.

Perfect.

[ralph johansson]

You need a capo when singers insist on using weird keys like Bb or Eb !!!

The only weird thing is that you haven't bothered to learn these keys - they are among the most common
keys in popular music. They sit very nicely on the mando in standard
(violin) positions. Capoing (or just moving your closed G and C positions 3 frets up the neck) deprives you of a lot of nice possibilties. Bb is probably my favorite key next to F.

[JeffD]

I have a Shubb capo. I find I use it mostly when I change my strings, to keep the tail end tight while I wind.

I have a small Kyser that I love to put on my head stock, with my tuner, and a clothes pin, to make fun of my guitar playing friend who keeps two capos and a tuner up there.

[Laird]

Capoing (or just moving your closed G and C positions 3 frets up the neck) deprives you of a lot of nice possibilties.

As for sliding the fingering up three frets (in this case), I wasn't suggesting that you just play the chords--though that's fine, too--but that once you know where you root-chord fingering is, you can move up and down the fretboard with confidence. I don't think there are many possibilities lost. Of course, there's nothing wrong with starting at the Eb or Bb note and working up from there (and FFCP has provided an easy way to master that in a variety of fingerings), but I don't see a huge disadvantage of getting your bearings by finding the root chord and then rambling around the fretboard from there.

[bluemtgrass]

I am absolutely astounded that you guys don't know the REAL reason for a mandolin capo. Its for checking the innotation down the neck !

[MikeEdgerton]

And here I thought it was for holding the strings on the tailpiece while changing strings.

[Dan Margolis]

I never even thought of capoing my mandolin until I heard the spectacular guitarist Duke Levine use one on his mandolin. It was very nice and chimey sounding. I figured that if an uber musician like him could capo a mandolin without angst, I could, too. I guess that using a capo if you're a jazz guitarist is cheating, at least until a cool player like Bill Frisell or John Scofield does it and makes it okay for us to do it, too.

[MikeEdgerton]

If John McGann could win the Winfield mandolin competition playing with a capo on, I don't see how anyone can say it's a sin.

[Andy Fielding]

Nah, it's not cheating. It's a tradeoff. You pay the price of having a shorter range of notes to play in. And by shortening the scale your instrument was designed to have, you cut down its tone, resonance, and volume. There is no free lunch.

[Miko]

Doc Watson referred to his capo as "the little cheater bar", which I had always thought was the tavern where wee played occasionally.

[journeybear]

If they attach themselves to another mandolin, they are cheating. Otherwise, if they are true to you and accommodate your wishes, be grateful for their faithfulness and eagerness to please.

[Bertram Henze]

Wow, looks like it turns a guitar into an autoharp!

You say that like it's a bad thing...

It only gets bad when you take it too far:

[tkdboyd]

And here I thought it was for holding the strings on the tailpiece while changing strings.

This isn't a comment against using them for making music, but a major THUMBS UP to this! Best advice I had ever received (can't remember where I learned it/heard about it) but for any persons who hasn't tried it, I bet you'll like it!

[ralph johansson]

As for sliding the fingering up three frets (in this case), I wasn't suggesting that you just play the chords--though that's fine, too--but that once you know where you root-chord fingering is, you can move up and down the fretboard with confidence. I don't think there are many possibilities lost. Of course, there's nothing wrong with starting at the Eb or Bb note and working up from there (and FFCP has provided an easy way to master that in a variety of fingerings), but I don't see a huge disadvantage of getting your bearings by finding the root chord and then rambling around the fretboard from there.

Not sure I understand this. My point is simply use the whole fretboard regardless of key. The keys of Bb and F have tons of
possibilities in open position, they also allow for some nice combinations of first and second positions. Recently I transcribed Slow Poke from a YouTube video with Pee Wee King. He sang it in G. I didn't like the range so I transposed it to Bb. Towards the end I play a descending sequence of Maj7 and m7 forms ending with a G9 form: b-f-a. I could never do that if I were to cut off the first two ore three frets. I really wish some people would get away from the notion of "strange" or "weird" keys. As Paul Anastasio once said, there are no hard keys, only unfamiliar ones.

[ralph johansson]

I never even thought of capoing my mandolin until I heard the spectacular guitarist Duke Levine use one on his mandolin. It was very nice and chimey sounding. I figured that if an uber musician like him could capo a mandolin without angst, I could, too. I guess that using a capo if you're a jazz guitarist is cheating, at least until a cool player like Bill Frisell or John Scofield does it and makes it okay for us to do it, too.

I would never let myself be guided by the prestige of some other player. I would at least ask what exactly he achieves by a certain technique or device. Same thing with the Skaggs example. WHy does he use a capo on a simple tune in C? Why does he NOT use one on Rawhide (C), Old Home Place (Bb), or I'm Ready to Go (B)? There are musical answers for all four questions.

As for jazz I've explained this a number of times before. The reason mainstream, i.e., essentially, bebop, guitarists don't use capos is that their use is absolutely pointless - it just cuts off that many frets from the fretboard. The thing with Frisell is that he sometimes does stuff that is very far removed from mainstream jazz, with drones and little or no harmonic motion, for which a capo provides the desired range. Using a capo consistently to reduce to a few keys is at any rate limiting. Unfortunately the OP
didn't really explain what the role of the acoustic guitars was and he never answered my question on a very puzzling point.
And, really, his post was not about mandolins.

[ralph johansson]

If John McGann could win the Winfield mandolin competition playing with a capo on, I don't see how anyone can say it's a sin.

No one says so. But Prof. McGann has salso advised against the reductive use of capos. In his post in this thread, by the way, he mentioned Giant Steps, a tune that interweaves three different keys at a frantic pace. I once borrowed a practice book for jazz musicians that started off by exemplifying the need to be able to play in all keys. Three standards - Body and Soul, All the Things, and Cherokee - are enough to cover all 12 major keys!

[tprior]

Also consider this..If you are on a session with an artist, the producer wants to hear different timbers on a track..and then says to one of us.."how about capo up and change the timbre"...

What do we say.."no way dude, that's a sin"... ??

A capo is a tool, just like a hammer, if you use a hammer to knock in a screw, well...just like if you use a capo because you "can't play the chords"... Making music is never a sin, there are no rules. If I am using a capo and someone approaches me and tells me I am cheating or committing a sin , my response would be..." Thanks for the nice comments, glad you like the music"...

I carry Capo's ,Electronic tuners..all sorts of stuff to every gig...even a spare amp is in the van all the time...

[tr6drvr]

I've been playing mando about 2 years. I am still, and will be for some time to come, struggling to put it all together in G, A, D, C and sometimes F. Tone, chord variants, riffs, breaks, Monroe style vs modern arpeggios-plenty here to work on and master. For me its just asking too much to cope with B, B flat and E as well. I'll get to those when I have the other keys under control. Meanwhile, I like to have fun at jams and make a contribution. I'm too old to be embarrassed by whipping out the capo and jumping into the fray. Beats shaking my head when the break comes around in a rockin' Monroe classic in B flat.