Are capos cheating

[JeffD]

but certain things just sound better when I have the option of hitting the open strings and letting them ring while playing melodies on adjacent strings. The trade off for a slightly more constricted tone with the capo is worth it in those instances.

Zakly.

[JeffD]

and the other players will look at you funny.

As you point out, in some cases if you don't use a capo you get funny looks, and at other times you get funny looks when you do use a capo.

I get funny looks for showing up.

So what ever you do, do it proudly, full in the knowledge that you will get funny looks and you will be judged in either case.

[Bertram Henze]

Bertram, what is that thing! Link?

Wow, looks like it turns a guitar into an autoharp!

The autoharp guess is quite near the mark, I think. It seems to be kind of a second left hand, programmable to hold down a chord and thereby creating some kind of open tuning to operate on with your real left hand. Here is their website.

However, whenever you feel you don't have enough hands to operate your instrument, take a lead from these:



I think the man on the headstock is way cool

[Bertram Henze]

I get funny looks for showing up.

So what ever you do, do it proudly, full in the knowledge that you will get funny looks and you will be judged in either case.

That's the spirit.
I always say "I'm an alien and happy. I phone home sometimes."

[John McGann]

I love steel guitarist Jerry Byrd's quote about all things having to do with gear, tunings, capos, etc:

" If you can play, it doesn't matter, and if you can't play, it doesn't matter!"

Sometimes you need the sound of open strings ringing, and retuning on a mando (especially on stage) isn't an attractive option. As many others have said, the sound should be the reason. I've recorded with singers in Ab and had no ethical dilemma capoing at the 1st fret. I also used one on a set of tunes at Winfield the year I got 1st place in the mandolin contest. Nobody hassled me about that...


It looks great on stage moving the capo once a second to play "Giant Steps", though

[Martin Jonas]

However, whenever you feel you don't have enough hands to operate your instrument, take a lead from these:

My favourite video in this vein is this one, for the ineffable cool in which he deals with having forgotten his capo, and the fact that he pays no attention at all to what's going on at the neck of his guitar.



Martin

[MikeEdgerton]

I love steel guitarist Jerry Byrd's quote about all things having to do with gear, tunings, capos, etc:

"If you can play, it doesn't matter, and if you can't play, it doesn't matter!"

That is great.

[Laird]

However, whenever you feel you don't have enough hands to operate your instrument, take a lead from these:



I think the man on the headstock is way cool

Awesome! That's the way to do it.

[Terry Allan Hall]

I can recall only one time using a capo on mandolin, and that was because the girl I'd been hired to back-up decided, literally at the last minute, to change keys (from G to Eb) on one song, and so I played my break in D, w/ a capo on the 1st fret.

Have no problem with anyone using a capo (use one quite a bit on my 6 and 12-stringed guitars and banjos, but find they get in my way on a mandolin's shorter scale (big hands/fingers).

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

I think the man on the headstock is way cool

That is really good.

[bluemtgrass]

Just caught this thread and didn't read all the posts so I don't know if this was mentioned. A capo works for the immediate enjoyment of the player. Isn't that what music is all about ? Suppose the indiviual was older, had RA or some other ailment that hindered them unable mentally or physically to play along with friends ? Would you really look at distain at that person ? Would you call the bluegrass/capo police and turn them in ?
I personally think a thread like this has a useful point but most that have a set viewpoint probably won't change their minds. It's interesting how excited people get when voicing an opinion and can say in no uncertain terms that they are right.

Especially when I know I am.

[OldSausage]

A capo works for the immediate enjoyment of the player. Isn't that what music is all about ?

Not sure about that one. But your argument is against a straw man, because I don't think anyone really means "don't ever, under any circumstances, use a capo". Just that, in general, the mandolin is an instrument that doesn't benefit very much from the use of one in most situations. Which I think you would have to try pretty hard to disagree with.

[Bertram Henze]

...for the ineffable cool in which he deals with having forgotten his capo, and the fact that he pays no attention at all to what's going on at the neck of his guitar.

"sono il capo!"

[Gerry Hastie]

I must admit to not having read all the posts on this thread so excuse me if this point has already been made. Debating issues like capos and cheating sounds a bit like arguing whether you used the correct equipment to climb a mountain in a way that pleases other hill climbers. Surely the point of playing music is the outcome. Worrying about how you get there is like looking at someone's
finger when they're pointing at the moon. Use a capo, detune, open tune, stroke it with a feather - do what you need to get the sound you want.

[Dan Margolis]

In a forum, people discuss things. Capo chat is likely to be a bit divisive, but it isn't political or religious chat, so most folks probably aren't going to get too upset. My point is that we're here to discuss stuff that your friends and family couldn't care less about, so we do!

The fella who plays all of his bluegrass out of the "G" position, well, that's folk music for you! At least he doesn't let his limitations get in the way of making some music.

[bluemtgrass]

Don't let this get out but Planet Waves probably makes the best capo for a Mando/Banjo. It's a bit slower that a Keyser but makes contact with the strings and stays put much better. Doesn't get in the way as much. If you're playing a mile a minute then you probaby don't need one. If you play like I do, no lessons and play chords with a bit of lead the open sound you can get just can't be beat plus any key becomes playable instantly. I love it. It means playing in a jam instead of standing in the back like some sort of wallflower. Even if I had the time to learn to play in any key there would be times I'd reach for it just for that certain open ringing sound that's possible. Not knocking the " right " way to play just saying there are alternatives and we shouldn't be getting a nose bleed with our holier than thou attitudes that some surely have.

[Kip Carter]

Don't let this get out but Planet Waves probably makes the best capo for a Mando/Banjo.

Which one are you talking about..they show 4 different models.
Kip...

[brianf]

Who says things never change? Previous threads on the capo have mostly been negative, but seems a change has taken place, a common sense attitude that making music is the point, capo or no capo.

[tprior]

no, they change the sonic timber of an Instrument which may be exactly right for a particular song.

[bluemtgrass]

Which one are you talking about..they show 4 different models.
Kip...

Now look........... DON't tell anyone else. Just Strings has it for $ 14.92. Better but slower than a Keyser. Model # NS Trio Capo Pro PW-CP-06. If your fingers are small enough you can play all the way up to E using G fingering. I've used it up to D but my fingers are too big for anything more. I then cut it down on both ends so it fits up to D. No use having that bit of overhang getting in the way. Definately makes for a sound unlike any others however some may find it too high pitched past the 5th fret. Sure I can play out of the usual G,B,D,E,C,A but I find myself reaching occasionally not out of necessity but cause I like the sound.

If you are mentally/physically challenged ( like some people accuse me of being ) its truly been a Godsend. And I honestly don't care if some people turn up their nose. I just do a couple songs in G#, C#, Bb minor and a couple of other oddball keys I can think of. I find the smirk on most run away from their faces especially when I point to them to take the lead. You can have a lot of fun with these things.
.

[Laird]

Who says things never change? Previous threads on the capo have mostly been negative, but seems a change has taken place, a common sense attitude that making music is the point, capo or no capo.

The change seems to be in the particpants of the conversation, as much as anything. Many of these folks open to capos weren't on the forum during our past discussions. Those current participants who were here for our past discussions have always tended to be more open-minded. It looks like some of the capo-haters just aren't bothering to have the same discussion yet again.

[Elliot Luber]

True. I previously wrote against using capos, not because they're cheating, but because if you're just learning to play, it can limit your exposure to the upper fretboard. So I feel they're fine to use, but shouldn't be used as a crutch or an excuse to play mostly in first position. Once you've been playing for a while and you know your instrument, it's just another tool to make possible the kind of music you hear in your head. Use it when it makes sense -- like adjusting the key to a vocalists range. Opinions likely vary by style of music, notably classical.

[fiddlemike]

My capon was cheating with my hound dog. Does that count?

[JeffD]

Look, everything is OK, if you are doing it for the right reasons. Capo, two finger chords, playing in first postion, tablature, pinky planting, reading the chords off the guitar player, tuning the thing in fourths like a guitar, playing only for yourself at home, its all fine as a way of achieving the specific effects you are after. All fine things to do as a choice, out of alternatives.

Its all a lot of fun.

The other hand is this - anything you do in order to avoid learning something is problematical. Anything used as a crutch, to avoid something else that you find hard. Anything you do because you haven't learned the alternatives so its all you can do.

Its not wrong. Nobody is going to yell at you. Its not cheating. Nobody is going to quit playing with you. Who cares about looks, you're going to get them for showing up. Its a problem only when, and because, it gets in the way of learning more.

[Fran]

(...) but for chords or leads, who needs a capo?

You need a capo when singers insist on using weird keys like Bb or Eb !!!