If I wanted a mandola AND a bouzouki...

[lukmanohnz]

Well, the question's moot because I do want both. Except I probably can't convince my wife that buying two more fretted instruments is really the best use of our savings account right now. But let's say I can convince her that ONE more fretted instrument would be a really good idea to keep me from wandering aimlessly around the neighborhood, whining away like a mortally wounded dog. (Well, how do YOU convince your spouse that you need another instrument when you have a dozen or so already taking up closet space in the bedroom?) ANYway, I want to play both bluegrass and celtic music on the boudola, er, manzouki, er zoukdola. So what would you recommend that I purchase?

[barrangatan]

I would consider a short scale bouzouki (~20 inches), tune it to GDAx, and capo at the 5th fret to play tunes like a mandola.

[Bertram Henze]

A bigger closet?

[Graham McDonald]

Buy a bouzouki and a capo. Capo at the 5th fret and you have a a mandola.

cheers

graham

[Eddie Sheehy]

Clement and Graham said the same thing so I'll just add: " call it an Octave mandolin and keep it unison..."

[Perry]

How about (1) guitar...a fabulously versatile instrument

[mrmando]

Get a doubleneck.

[multidon]

You could get a nice quality mandola and get the proper gauge strings to tune it Irish, DAEB. I find this to be a fabulously versatile instrument. Think about it- it is just like an octave mandolin without the bottom G course, which you don't use that much anyways, and you have the added high B course for high notes in 1st position! This rocks for Celtic and Old Time. I have a Mid-Mo rosewood mandola I tune that way. The only down side is that you have to buy single strings to get the right combination of gauges.

[lukmanohnz]

Hmmmm.... This is all very interesting - thanks everyone for the suggestions. I am going to start watching the classifieds for bouzoukis and octave mandolins and mandolas... and saving my pennies.

And whining.

[Bertram Henze]

...it is just like an octave mandolin without the bottom G course, which you don't use that much anyways...

Can't second that - I'd be lost without my G course.

[Gerry Cassidy]

I currently own 3 octave mandolins and a bouzouki. I also recently took on another mandola.

None of the Octaves, or the bouzouki sound as nice as the mandola when they are capo'd at the 5th fret.

Tuning, on instruments that are already a pain in the tuckus to keep tuned, is even more difficult with the capo figured in to the equation.

The capo is reminiscent of a hurdle in a track and field lane... well, not really. I'm just taking a stab at making fun of an obvious obstacle while playing the instrument.

From my own personal experience, the best recommendation I can make is; If you don't plan on playing the mandola very often then get an OM, or Zouk and use the capo. If you plan on using the mandola on a frequent basis, then get a mandola.

And, of course, THEEE most important aspect to go for is; Have fun! A good version of any of these instruments is a great addition to your musical arsenal.

[Johnozouk]

Alternatively, if you get a long scale bouzouki and tune it to GDAD, you can capo at the 7th fret to get DAEA for melody. This works fine as long as the melody does not go below D. If it does, you have to play up an octave. I used to do this all the time when I had my first bouzouki (26 in. scale Petersen). You will see Ciarran Curran from Altan playing like this a lot. I did this for several years and then had Davy Stuart make me a mandola tuned DAEA. I like DAEA because it lets me use the same fingering as a mandolin, but with the high A string you don't have to reach down the neck for high notes. Later, I had Tony Sutherland make me a shorter scale (around 23 in.) 5 course bouzouki tuned GDADA which works fine, but does require a small shift in fingering when playing melody.

[zookster]

Anyone want to suggest some string gauges for the DAEB tuning on regular scale mandola?

[Eddie Sheehy]

I assume you mean 16" for regular scale? I have a 15" scale 10-string mandola that's CGDAE, but I'd be frightened to 'up' it to GDAEB (using light mandolin strings with a .008 top)... I haven't seen a thinner string than a .008 - but would it go up to B without breaking? There's also the custom strings from OCTAVE4PLUS which some use to get a guitar string to B... (see the CGDAEG - NST Group). I have a Waldzither (18" scale) with 8 strings tuned DD AA EE BB (J72 strings) but it's a third below GG DD AA EE (mandolin). Anyone else experiment?

[sgarrity]

I've been wanting to try DAEB tuning for awhile. Anybody worked out the gauges for a 16" scale?

[ptritz]

On my Weber mandola, which has a 17" scale, I use .042, .028, .020, .011 for DAEB. I've also sometimes used a plain .016 rather than the wound .020 for the E, but like the wound better. I worked these gauges out by starting with Weber's recommended gauges for CGDA and using Graham MacDonald's tension calculator to work out what the gauges needed to be to end up at the same tension with the higher tuning.

For a while, I used a slightly lighter set than these - .040, .026, .015, .011 - but have now gone back to the slightly heavier set.

Pete

Pete

[Eddie Sheehy]

Ah. I confused myself into thinking of pushing the Mandolin up a fifth instead of the Mandola up 1 (or Capo 2 as they say). My Waldzither is happy with DAEB and OM strings - .012, .020, .030, .044 - I remember also liking J72's for this tuning on a 17" Bitterroot

[multidon]

My Mid Missouri M16 has a 15 1/2" scale and I used an on line string calculator to come up with .012, .020W, .032W, .042W (Phosphor bronze) for DAEB, which gave me string tensions very close to the same as J72's tuned CGDA. Been working like a champ so far. I buy them from Elderly as individual strings (made by GHS), best price I've found. Some people like to do the variation on Irish tuning, DAEA, sometimes called bouzouki tuning. The guy who plays mandola for Dervish uses that tuning I've heard, but I like to keep everything in 5th's. Less confusing to my poor little brain!

[acousticphd]

.... you'd be my friend.


I have both, and I can tell you that I play the mandola a lot more, probably 20X more. But I think I would try to include the OM/bouzouki more if I had a better instrument - mine is an archtop Harmony tenor (with the usual birch top) converted to 8-string.

I also do not, and would not play either in a bluegrass setting, but both can work really nicely in old-time or celtic-flavored music. Mandola is nice to play when there are already a couple of mandolin players.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I have two 26" scale bouzoukis. Using a sliding capo for quick key changes I can use them as OM's, zouks, Mandolas(capo'd at 5), and even mandolins (capo'd at 12). I tune one GGDDAADD and the other GGDDAAEE and switch between unison and octaves on the bass strings. One is a Dio Dinos flatback flat-top, and the other is a Peter Abnett Curved 3-piece back with a flat top. The best of all worlds... and I don't need both...

[Mandobart]

On my Weber mandola, which has a 17" scale, I use .042, .028, .020, .011 for DAEB.

Pete - Are you seriously able to get a 17" .020 string tuned to the same pitch as the E on a mandolin? And a .011 stretched up one fifth higher? Or are you actually tuning an octave below mandolin tuning? I just got a 16" 10 stringer tuned CGDAE and have broken a few .011 and .010 E's so far. This from a guy who NEVER breaks strings (before now).

[multidon]

Mandobart- not to jump in front of Pete but I am sure judging by the string set he uses (not that different from mine above) that he is tuning one step above regular mandola tuning like I do, meaning that the DAE are an octave below regular mandolin. Your 16 inch scale is too long for .011 or .010. I recommend you try .009 or even .008. You are breaking E strings because there is too much tension. Try playing with this Web site:

http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

It won't do a 10 string but I picked mandolin and changed the scale length to 16 inches. You want all of your strings to be somewhere around 20 pounds tension, generally speaking. I found that using the calculator, .009 seemed to do the job.

[Mandobart]

Multidon - The .010 E's are holding now. They have broken when I have loosened them quite a bit to move the bridge to set intonation and then attempted to tune back up, and once again when I loosened the strings to raise the action then tuned back up. One string each time. So far, on regular string changes (only done once since I've only had this instrument for about a month) I haven't had a problem. I keep spares in the case, just in case.

[ptritz]

[QUOTE=multidon;1006601]Mandobart- not to jump in front of Pete but I am sure judging by the string set he uses (not that different from mine above) that he is tuning one step above regular mandola tuning like I do, meaning that the DAE are an octave below regular mandolin.

Yes, Don, that's exactly right.

Pete

[Eddie Sheehy]

Last night I "upped" my Gibson H1(16" scale) to DDAAEEBB. I kept the same strings on - TI 164. I miss that deep C though...