I've rarely used them but have a request for them. Gold A style. They show them to be out of stock at SM.
Anyone know what's up?
I've rarely used them but have a request for them. Gold A style. They show them to be out of stock at SM.
Anyone know what's up?
This is a Stew Mac company and made in Bozeman Montana. They build them in batches when it fits their schedule. In addition, they keep them in a bit of limited supply to keep demand high enough to warrant the price they get for them. They will build some more in the near future and then will supply back orders first. Stew Mac is the ONLY place they are available and not available all the time.
Have a Great Day!
Joe Vest
Off topic but seeing as Joe is here, I gotta ask how do the Golden Age tuners compare with the Wavs?
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
I just put a set of satin nickel Waverleys on an F5 and a set of Grovers on another. Frankly, I can't find any difference in looks or function. Seems some people believe the name is worth $400. I have a set on my personal F5 that were salvaged from a damaged instrument (they work great) but would not spend the extra cash for virtually no benefit other than the name. I put them on when ordered but feel it is money better spent on inlays or a better case.
Byron Spain, Builder
www.theleftyluthier.com
I don't mind the restoration tuners. We have used them on a number of instruments. They have not been a problem for us. Personally I like the Grovers best. The Waverlies are a great tuner and will last a lifetime, but they are very expensive, a bit finicky, and can be hard to get. In addition, they cost the instrument makers and repair shops the very same as the retail customer. I often have people ask if they can get them at my price. I tell them Yep. Just go online to Stew Mac. Your price there is the same as mine.
Any of them will function well if they are installed properly. In my opinion the Waverly tuners are more of a pain to install and adjust properly. The Grovers have never been a problem, and the restoration tuners work very well and you just have to ensure your hole is the right size. The ones for vintage instruments have been exact drop ins for old Gibson mandolins and they look better and more vintage than the originals and they work great.
For a bit more modern mandolins, I like the Grovers and have had no problems with them.
Have a Great Day!
Joe Vest
Grovers have hit the target. They are smooth, accurate, nicely designed and very reasonably priced.
They are also the only tuner available anywhere for any price with the 18:1 gear ratio.
But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
And London never fails to leave me blue
And Paris never was my kinda town
So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues
I installed a set of vintage tuners in my Fairbanks-Vega mandolin Banjo. I had to drill out the holes and used the Stewart MacDonald drilling jig. They work just fine. I also dropped a set of Golden Age with modern spacing in my Samick A style. I didn't even change the bushings.
For my usu, they are a good product.
When I was at the Big G we worked very closely with Grover to produce a set of tuners we were comfortable using and a supply that was not up and down all the time. Before that we used another brand for everything but the MM and DMM. We switched to Grover and they built the tuners we wish we could get elsewhere. The only reason the MM and DMM did not always have them (though a few did by order), was the specs were already printed and making the change would have required corporate approval. If we sent that up the ladder it would never get back so that was a fight that was not worth fighting.
I have found the Grover's to be as good and functional as the Waverlies for hundreds less. I like the 18:1 ratio and they hold well... every bit as good as anything else on the market. The only complaint I had with the tuners was the screws for the tuning buttons coming loose at times and if the owner does not check from time to time he may loose a button or a screw. A bit of lock tite will resolve that problem. However, Waverlies have the same issue. They don't seem to come loose quite as easy, but they will come loose as well.
We had near zero issues with the Grover tuners... except an occasional screw or button coming loose. Even that was not a major problem. A fairly small percentage of the numbers of tuners we used. I still use the Grover's on my personal mandolins when I change them out. I like to try new products as they come on the market, but still have found nothing better than the Grovers. That does not mean others are not good or highly functional, just my favorite is the Grover.
Even on acoustic guitar I like the Grover open back or Waverly tuners. They seem to both be quite functional and look great. The Grovers are quite a bit less expensive than the Waverlies even there, but they function about equally.
Have a Great Day!
Joe Vest
Weber fit Grover tuners as standard. My Lebeda "Special" also has Grover tuners on it.They were both good sets of tuners from the off,but after a tad of adjustment as per Frank Ford's recommendations,both sets are as smooth as silk in operation & there's no slipping. Waverly tuners have a great reputation,but having no personal experience of them,i couldn't comment on their actual use,but it would seem that the Grovers are an excellent tuner for a whole lot less,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
I can't comment on the relative value or longevity - but I do think that the Grovers are just not as attractive as almost ANY tuner used on prewar Gibsons or Martins. Those companies had an amazing sense of style in my opinion, and Grover would do better to copy those older models if they can't come up with something better. (of course there's no disputing matters of taste, but that's my opinion)
Same with Schallers
I find the Golden Age , and the Waverley 'arrowheads' to be a big step forward, or backward, or whatever:
I bought a set of the "Derrington" grover tuners from Pete Mix last year. Have not gotten around to it, but am looking to put them on my Collings MF. They seem like good tuners.
"your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."
I installed a set of Grover 309FGs on my recently completed Mandolin and I find them, incredibly stiff under full string load. I applied a little machine oil to the gears and shafts too. Which screw do I need to turn to loosen them up a bit?
I can't say exactly what your problem might be Peter, but when I get the holes drill right on, so the tuners just drop in with no resistance with the bushings in place I never have any problem.
Also, in that vein, old Gibson mandolins had tapered pegheads and since they were using the old style bushings which allowed for that. Most modern tuners bushings are made to be used in a parallel peghead. There's very little room for tilt unless you don't mind that your bushings don't sit flush on the face. You can still get the old style bushings and I used them in a lot of early mandolins but I now prefer the modern ones which help support the tuner shaft so the tuner can work at it's best.
Jim, I use the "old style" bushings in everything (nearly) and they support the posts just fine. Yours don't? Why is that?
Also, I've had no problems using the more modern, heavier bushings in tapered pegheads.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
See what you make me do instead of working?
I took the shot of the trad bushing to show how much slop they have. I contend they're mostly decorative and do almost nothing in terms of supporting the post against string tension. They're installed using a violin reamer into the 1/4" hole and it seems to me the wood is bearing most of the load.
I tried to get a similar pic of a Grover bushing but you couldn't really tell much. But I'll concede that you could have a bit of a taper and still have them work, but not as optimally as they are designed to do. They are intended for the shaft to be bearing along the full length of the bushing to give it good support and a smooth bearing surface.
The second picture is of a Schaller bushing and if you want a tapered peghead with these, fugitaboutit.
As I see it, you have a round post inside a round metal bushing. Geometry tells me that, in theory, the best I can do is to have a line of contact between the post and the bushing, in the direction of string pull because the bushing inside diameter must be larger than the post diameter. In practice, we're dealing with a theoretical point of contact, especially when using a tapered peghead, which I greatly prefer. I install my tuners with the posts snugged against the contact points in the bushings, and I feel like those contact points are similar regardless of which bushings I use, so I go with the lightest I can find.
OK, get back to work!
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
I had a problem once with a tapered peghead because I drilled from back to front (ignorance and main strength rule my life)without considering that the holes need to plane perpendicular to the front. I was very sorry I did that. In fact,I'm still sorry I did that.
Jim
Jim, I do both (ignorance and main strength aside). I drill from the back and perpendicular to the front. I use a pin drilling jig in the drill press.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
Charlie Derrington designed some Grovers for Gibson. These are prototypes. I don't think Gibson went ahead with the project.
"your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."
Have a look at Frets.com's tuning gear maintenance page. I adjusted the tuners on both my Mandolin as per Frank Ford's advice & they work superbly well :-
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musi...geartune3.html
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
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