Sound holes in Ribs. Do they work?

[AlanS]

I have noticed that several makers offer models with oval sound hole(s) in the ribs. Does anyone have direct experience as to whether or not they work?
I am sure many of us have experience of playing in group situations where it is impossible to hear yourself play. I am certain that everyone can hear my bum notes except me!
Do these extra sound holes help and is there any downside?
Happy holidays.

[Mandocarver]

I'm afraid I can't offer any scientific proof but I can tell you that I've made 2 identical resonator mandolas, one with a soundport and one without and I can tell you that while to the observer they don't sound any different, to the player, there is a big difference with the soundport - you hear yourself a lot better, especially the bass notes. But this is a resonator (wood-bodied), so I don't know how applicable it would be to a conventional acoustic instrument.
Happy Boxing Day!
Dean

[Stephen Perry]

I have used soundport acoustic guitars - can tell the difference. Wouldn't look for a miracle, but would expect a bit of help.

[Malcolm G.]

Are we talking about a sound hole in the side of the instrument, or in the ribs/tonebars?

[AlanS]

Are we talking about a sound hole in the side of the instrument, or in the ribs/tonebars?

I am talking about a hole in the side.

[P.D. Kirby]

I am talking about a hole in the side.

Got any pictures or can you name any production instruments that have this feature. I am drawing a blank?

[AlanS]

Got any pictures or can you name any production instruments that have this feature. I am drawing a blank?

Have a look at this as one of many examples http://www.laughlinguitars.ca/M7/

[Big Joe]

Several manufacturers have or do make instruments like this. It can help the player hear better, but it isn't day and night difference. If you are playing acoustic in an electric band, probably not as effective as a good monitor. It certainly does not improve the output to the front, and in some it even takes a bit away. My personal opinion is that it is a good marketing gimmick. They have to have something different to sell product, and there will always be those who like it whether it improves anything or not.

[Rick Lindstrom]

Got any pictures or can you name any production instruments that have this feature. I am drawing a blank?

James Condino for one:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/at...ntid=11917&d=0

Here's another:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/at...entid=3844&d=0

Rick

[P.D. Kirby]

Have a look at this as one of many examples http://www.laughlinguitars.ca/M7/

Thanks Alan, Good looking Mandolins for sure and a very interesting concept with the ports. Is there just the one in the Bass side?

[Dale Ludewig]

From my experience, it helps the player hear him/her self a bit better in a loud acoustic situation. It matters little out front. And if your mandolin is pretty robust and you play strongly, it's not really necessary. I've done one. I rarely open the port.

[SternART]

I've also seen this detail on instruments by both John Monteleone and Lawrence Smart.
Played a great "green colored" Grand Artist Monty, a fella had at the Mandolin Symposium
one year. I think Tonegards help the player hear themselves better too, as the
sound coming off the back isn't damped from touching the body & is free to vibrate.

[Steve Davis]

http://www.phoenixmandolins.com/euro...oclassical.htm I played one of these and thought the sound port made it easier to hear and it didn't seem to affect the projection at all. I'd love to have one.

[Joe Mendel]

I have a Graham McDonald two point oval hole that I won in the Zoukfest raffle a couple of years ago. It's a very good sounding instrument and it has a side port. I think it sounds better with the port covered than with it open. There's not a huge difference, but it clearly has more lower end with the port covered.

[Chip Booth]

I played one Lawrence Smart's "coma hole" mandolins with a side port. It seemed to somewhat even out the difference between playing and listening.

[Dobe]

Interesting subject Alan. I'm a huge believer in side ports (I prefer 'players pleasure port) in guitars, and have had a half dozen or so with them. You can definately hear alot more sound coming at you. Got the idea from Benedetto's book when building my 1st archtop, so I wouldn't really chalk it up as a gimmick; maybe on mandolins however. Lots of folks on kit guitar builders forums are using them these days. A few thoughts: pretty obvious- wouldn't be wise on a name brand or vintage instrument due to resale value. Pretty much sacrilege. On mandos' however I'm in the 'what's the point' camp. The space you've got in the ribs between the kerf linings gives you very little to work with, unless it's a deeper (thicker) than normal design. I have played a couple fairly deep sided Mandos w/ ports at a vendors show & you could hear the difference. For your standard dimensioned Mando however, I just don't see it as that necessary. Tone guard would probably do as much or more; instruments already pretty close to your ears. Maybe try it on a Rouge or something 1st & decide for yourself. A couple interesting notes: Mandocarver- 1- I tried it on a resonator Bari Mando (Mandola + 3 frets) and it didn't seem to do much. 2- If you strum a (guitar) chord & put your hand over the port, there's a definate suction that you can feel as the air wants to travel through the side & out the top. Maybe some of our more physics oriented members could expand on that; all I know is it happens, probably as long as the side port is smaller than the top ?
I also believe it takes very little away from the forward projection of the instrument.

[bobbyburns]

I was wondering about all this a couple of years ago. I was skeptical about it. I thought that a hole big enough to make the sound louder to the player, would have to cut the bass response out front. I made a mandolin without the side hole and played it for a few weeks, then I cut an oval hole about 1"x2" in the side. It was a very noticeable difference in the volume to the player, and didn't seem any different at all in front. Maybe the difference would be greater out front with a bigger hole? With the hole, it seemed a lot livelier when you play it. It is a very loud mandolin.

[lmartnla]

Rolf Gerhart put a sound port in his Phoenix Europa II series of mandolins. I have one and I like it. You can really hear yourself better---Lou

People who listen to me say it is a very loud mandolin, so projection probably is not affected adversely.

[cobraman428]

The sound hole makes a great ash tray or collection for crumbs and dust.

[Philippe Bony]

I've also seen this detail on instruments by both John Monteleone and Lawrence Smart.
Played a great "green colored" Grand Artist Monty, a fella had at the Mandolin Symposium
one year...

[mandobassman]

I had red a review on a Condino mandolin once that had 3 side ports that could be left open or blocked off in 3 different configurations. I located the review from JazzMando.com on his green "Cricket" mandolin. Here's a excerpt from that review.

"We mentioned the three-hole design on the face, but let's look at his "mirror" of the three holes on the side. Side ports can be a bit problematic in that the sound that comes gushing out of the top to the audience likely won't be the same sound to the player; not better, not worse, just different. Another problem is the way it affects the aperture of the air in the chamber, we found a striking difference in the tone of both instruments when the side holes were covered. James offers custom-made plugs for his instruments, and we would likely opt for this, as it boosts the bass significantly, and adds a dimension of richness to the bottom end. That said, we found you can vary the amount of hole-covering by blocking only one or two of the ports, very much like adjusting individual bands of EQ on your stereo. Practical? We might never use this, but a musician with more creativity might unravel a whole new world of tone variety, right within the same instrument!"

Here's a link to the entire article.
http://jazzmando.com/james_condino.shtml

[P.D. Kirby]

If for no other purpose it would seem to make that occasional pick that jumps into the F-hole to be much easier to get out.

[Dobe]

The sound hole makes a great ash tray or collection for crumbs and dust.

or drool bucket, if your foolish enough to let a banjo player pick on it !

[grandcanyonminstrel]

This discussion comes up regularly around here.

The first time I put a side port on an instrument, a guitar, was approx. 1995. I'd never seen or heard of one at that time, but I had been wanting to give it a tray for a half dozen years. Since then, they have become fairly common across a variety of instruments. There are several well known published articles on their validity and scientific responses. I've since seen several instruments that were many hundreds of years old that incorporated the same design, so it is not anything new.

I've used them in approximately 30 different instruments of my own and probably played another hundred built by others that used them. Tone and voice responses of them are so subjective that you can't really lump them all into one category- location, number, aperture, everything matters and they all have varying influences on the instrument. Probably the biggest thing to remember is that very few people own or have played one, and not that many builders venture into that territory. All A /B comparisons between different mandolins and builders will have differing results, side ports or not.

Mandolins have so many variables in their voice that the real question is not does this feature change things about my instrument, but more like am I capable of utilizing this feature on an instrument. If you are a pragmatic, crusty old fuddy who only plays a certain style of music from a certain period and only find it acceptable to play on a specific period of traditional instruments.......well.....side ports probably are not the right thing for you. There is nothing more frustrating than someone ordering a funny looking custom made green mandolin with holes all over the place and a style that is a million miles away from 1923 and then having them complain that it does not sound like their old Gibson; it is not supposed to!!! It is never going to sound like your old faithful and you probably won't like it. If your pallet of musical interests and style are more open to new ideas, then side ports may be something that will work to your liking. The only real way to tell is to find one and try it out.

My current batch of mandolins does not have any side ports, but I've got one on my upright bass that I won't ever give up- at a gig last night, it felt like a little bit of heaven smiling back at me....

j.
www.condino.com