Any ideas as to why it's so rare to see an 8-string electric...

[Terry Allan Hall]

mandolin, while there are a lot of options in 4 and 5-stringed mandos?

All the 8-stringed solid-bodies I've run across lately are either junk, expensive hand-mades or some vintage models that, again, are pretty expensive. Why is there so little interest in solid bodied 8-stringers?

Been looking for a suitable solid-body 8-string for quite a while and finally went to Plan B: a semi-hollow 8-string made from a lam. top mandolin (that I added a center post to, to cut down of feedback) and a P-90 mandolin/tenor p/u.

[Bob Borzelleri]

I have a Godin 8 string. Sounds and plays great.

[Darren Bailey]

Very common round here - and inexpensive (probably in your junk category but i'm happy with it)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h10NJaULX8U[/YOUTUBE]

[Terry Allan Hall]

Very common round here - and inexpensive (probably in your junk category but i'm happy with it)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h10NJaULX8U[/YOUTUBE]

Actually, I wouldn't refer to the Mando-bird as "junk", because Epiphone makes decent instruments, for the most part, at reasonable prices...don't care for the Mandobird body style, but it's definitely a decent little mando...but why is such an instrument (an 8-string solid-body) so rare?

There must be a dozen or more companies that offer 4 and 5-stringed solid-bodied mandos.

[journeybear]

Not sure that's really true. Seems to me there are a lot of them out there. But maybe manufacturers imagine people are more attracted to something that sounds and plays like an electric guitar, and a single-string electric mandolin is kind of - kind of - an intermediate hybrid. My first electric was a Gibson EM-150, and I had problems with feedback and tuning, when I was playing this a lot twenty-odd years ago. I solved these by stuffing bandannas in the f-holes and going with single strings. Now with my MandoBird I have light strings, which enable a 2-3 fret bend, and I really like doing that, really fits in with the sounds i want to make. I may try a few things next time I get strings - like dust off the EM-150 again, see how those light strings work with it, and while I'm at it see how hard it really is to bend double strings, if they're light gauge. I'm still reluctant, as I recall it being very difficult to keep the pairs tuned, but tuner technology has improved considerably in the meantime.

I do miss the jangly double-string sound, and compensate for its lack with a picking style that incorporates cross-picking, arpeggiation, and a slight wash with wah-wah. When needed, of course, as it doesn't come up that often. I have a feeling that if the true electric mandolin sound in full regalia were to ever catch on, manufacturers would be all over it real quick. But since the experimental 1960s didn't produce a proponent of this instrument the way it did people who used flute, violin, and other atypical instruments in a rock context, nor has such a person arisen since (well, I'm here, but few have heard this amazing sound ) to capture the public's interest, manufacturers must not see this as enough of a market share to bother with. I would like to think the "if you build it, they will come" mindset might have some sway (of course I do, mando rocker that I am), but it hasn't happened yet. Yet.

[Ed Goist]

I think the reason is that solid-bodied electric mandolins are mostly seen as instruments designed to perform/function like solid-bodied electric guitars (thus they are single stringed as opposed to having courses), while semi-hollow bodied and hollow-bodied electric mandolins as mostly seen as instruments designed to perform/function like amplified versions of acoustic mandolins (thus the four courses).

[journeybear]

What he said. If electric 12-strings guitars were popular, if that were the sound kids wanted to make, manufacturers would be all over ways to feed that need. Since major bands that feature(d) that sound are rare (The Searchers, The Byrds, Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers (a bit)), we are where we are.

[Terry Allan Hall]

What he said. If electric 12-strings guitars were popular, if that were the sound kids wanted to make, manufacturers would be all over ways to feed that need. Since major bands that feature(d) that sound are rare (The Searchers, The Byrds, Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers (a bit)), we are where we are.

There are a lot of companies that make electric 12-strings, though...some, like Rickenbacher, make more than one model...it just seems odd that so many companies that put out 4 or 5 stringed mandolins ignore the 8-string player market.

I'm sure you've seen what vintage solid-bodied 8-strings, like Gibsons, Framuses, Hagstroms, etc. go for...they sell at amazing prices and often, so there's definitely a market!

[journeybear]

I'm talking about the sound people are trying to make when they play an instrument, which is fed (my theory, anyway) by what they hear others play. It's a sort of supply-and-demand of the mind, or desire, which translates to supply-and-demand of actual instruments. If enough people wanted to play double-string instruments - mandolins or guitars - manufacturers would supply them. Since single-string instruments are popular, that's what they make. People tend to want to play what they hear, and nearly all rock music features single string electric guitar, and that is the sound that attracts players and potential customers, in the electric string instrument community. If Slash or The Edge or Clapton were to suddenly switch over to 12-string electric, and stick with it, more people would try to emulate that sound. Not too likely, though. And since there is no comparable electric mandolin hero ... here we are.

I will grant I haven't gone shopping in a while, but it did seem to me when I was researching the wee beasties I was seeing plenty of both types. That may well have changed.

[thistle3585]

The reason that they are rare is because there is a very small market for them. Of the 60+ instruments I've built, I'd guess no more than six of them were eight strings. As to why the market is small? I have my assumptions but I'm sure I'd ruffle a few feathers and this seems like a friendly thread. Anyhow, I am finishing an eight string up that will be going to a dealer very soon so just keep your eyes peeled.

Andrew

[Perry]

mandolin, while there are a lot of options in 4 and 5-stringed mandos?

All the 8-stringed solid-bodies I've run across lately are either junk, expensive hand-mades or some vintage models that, again, are pretty expensive. Why is there so little interest in solid bodied 8-stringers?

Been looking for a suitable solid-body 8-string for quite a while and finally went to Plan B: a semi-hollow 8-string made from a lam. top mandolin (that I added a center post to, to cut down of feedback) and a P-90 mandolin/tenor p/u.

I think the simple reason is this: the pairs do not sound that great when amplified. If they are slightly out of tune which they almost always are the dissonance is not musical. This is not as noticeable on an acoustic mandolin. Also the pairs do not respond that well to effects in my personal experience.

That said see if you can score a Gibson EM-200 with a P-90.

[Ed Goist]

...snip...

That said see if you can score a Gibson EM-200 with a P-90.

Yes, but even some of these are played as single stringed e-mandos...
With stunningly good results, by the way!

[Terry Allan Hall]

I think the simple reason is this: the pairs do not sound that great when amplified. If they are slightly out of tune which they almost always are the dissonance is not musical. This is not as noticeable on an acoustic mandolin. Also the pairs do not respond that well to effects in my personal experience.

That said see if you can score a Gibson EM-200 with a P-90.

Actually, I bought a P-90 that was configured for a mandolin or tenor guitar off of Ebay yesterday and as soon as it gets here, I'm installing into my laminated top mando, which will then be a "poorman's EM-150"...also put in a soundpost beneath both braces, which should keep feedback to a minimum.

Not quite as cool as a EM-200, but it'll do, I reckon.

[timv]

Yeah, 8-strings are less common for sure, but I don't think I'd call them rare. The ratio of 8-string to 4-string emandos is definitely a lot higher than the ratio of 12-string to 6-string electric guitars. But I can see how the advantages of double-strung courses on an acoustic mandolin matter less for an electric. More volume is just a matter of turning up the volume, or getting a bigger amp. And there are lots of ways to enhance your tone with chorus etc if that's what you need, but you can't really take that out of an 8-string's sound when you don't want it.

I happen to really like playing 12-string electric guitar though. There was this one guy, George Harrison, who played a Rickenbacker 360/12. Maybe not too many have heard of him. And after the chat about Vox Mando-Guitars in the eBay topic (octave 12-string electric) and getting my head full of Buddy Miller licks, I've been thinking I might like to try playing an 8-string emando with octave strings on the G and D courses. I'm not sure I've ever seen one set up like that.

There are several styles of electric 8-stringers up on eBay, some quite cheap, and I'm half tempted to grab one just to try it. I doubt it would be good for jazz mando or bluegrass, but it seems like it might work for that extreme treble overload sound. I'm reluctant as much as anything because I already have enough instruments that I don't play as well as I could.

But has anyone tried or seen one in this configuration? And might there be any kind of advantage to a hollow-bodied mando with a magnetic pickup (Rick 360/12s had some sort of semi-hollow bodies) over a solid-body model for this? There are plenty of those, real cheap.

[mrmando]

Terry, have you spent any time at emando.com?

I guess if you're looking at current production instruments with any kind of mass-market numbers, then your complaint sorta makes sense. There are only three common 8-string solid or semi-solidbody models: the Mandobird VIII, the Eastwood Mandocaster, and the Godin A8. Of those, the first two might not be good enough for some folks (and there are fewer VIII's than IV's kicking around anyhow). One still sees a used Fender FM61SE from time to time.

But small-shop builds start at around $600 and go up from there. One needn't spend $2K on a custom instrument if one doesn't want to; plenty of builders will do one for less.

The DIY EM150 doesn't sound like a bad alternative. But if you ever get the jones for something different, poke around emando.com for a while and see if you can't find a builder whose designs grab you.

That being said, I do think there's more demand for the li'l geetar sound than for the amplified mandolin sound. Lots of people will just put a pickup on their acoustic mandolins rather than buy a purpose-built 8-string electric.

[Mandobart]

When I was deciding which way to go on an e-mando, I read a lot of earlier posts on 4/5 vs 8 string electrics, saw the advise against 8 strings due to problems if each pair were not exactly in tune, etc. Anyway, I really wanted an 8-string and didn't want to spend a bunch so I got the Mandobird VIII. I would not call it junk. True, there are some necessary immediate upgrades needed, which again thanks to this forum I was aware of. But for under $300 US (including the upgraded pickup, bridge and new nut, plus decent strings) I got a very functional, very playable solid-body electric 8 string mandolin. It's really not hard to keep it in tune, and I have yet to experience the downside of 8 vs 4 strings. For my style of playing and the guys I play with, I want my e-mando to still sound like a mandolin, so the 8-stringer works great for me.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Some very interesting responses, thus far, and I agree with Mandobart in wanting my electric mandolin to sound like a mandolin, not a tiny guitar...I was just curious as to why there was so few modern 8-string solid-bodied mandos.

Likely as not my "poorman's EM-150" will work out fine (can't wait for the P-90 to get here! ), as I'm only using a 40-watt amp (it's plenty loud enough, mic'd into my PA), but now that one of the regulars here PM'd me about the Fender FM-61SE, I'm going to probably look for one of those eventually.

[Ben Milne]

Mmm, not rare for at all, I see three or so 8 string electrics every time I walk into my music room.

I also have two others out on loan to friends at the moment.

I do prefer the feel of double course, and although I can find way around a 4string, it does feel more like a soprano guitar than a mandolin.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Mmm, not rare for at all, I see three or so 8 string electrics every time I walk into my music room.

I also have two others out on loan to friends at the moment.

I do prefer the feel of double course, and although I can find way around a 4string, it does feel more like a soprano guitar than a mandolin.

Actually, I was referring to 8-strings currently being manufactured...there is considerably fewer new 8-strings offered these days than new 4 or 5-strings.

But I'll bet you knew that...

And I agree with your last last paragraph.

[journeybear]

... I see three or so 8 string electrics every time I walk into my music room.

Whoa! That is quite a van you have there! Walking ability? A music room? I am impressed!

[mandroid]

What you see depends on where you look

[slausonm]

I am a complete novice, but my observation when attempting to design an e-mando for our class project was that not only were there fewer 8 string, many of the designs looked like little guitars from a variety of makers. I will admit that I didn't do an extensive search, but from what I could see from the product in the local music store and from the internet, nobody was making an F style e-mando. It seemed a bit odd to me that Acoustic F style mandolins are highly valued yet I didn't see anyone making an electric with an F flavor. Just my 2 cents. FYI, not knocking other designs, many are very cool, just wondering why no F style.
Matt

[mrmando]

Nobody's currently doing a sustained production run of electric F's, to be sure. The Hondos may have been the last time anyone tried it, and that was around 20 years ago.

But plenty of builders have made one-offs and short runs. Incomplete list: Billy Chapman, Gerry Collyard, Ron Oates, John Sullivan, Chris Forshage, Gibson, Bruce Harvie, Larry Ayers, Ellie Erickson, Martin Fair, Howard Jordan, John Knutson, Andy Manson, Glenn Nelson, Jim Nunis, and Jack O'Brien have all built electrics that could reasonably be called F-styles.

[Ed Goist]

The Mandolin Store has had this Gibson F-5GEM Electric Mandolin available for quite some time. (NFI)

[Lee]

The technology required to amplify an acoustic mandolin while retaining an acoustic sound wasn't well established back when the Gibson EM-150 was released though it certainly helped. New & different instruments and the ways to amplify them also helped achieve new musical tonalities and expression techniques that weren't really foreseen as the reason behind the instruments' development.

As electrically amplified string instruments technically progressed, the eventual solid body single string instruments developed their own sound, not trying anymore to imitate an acoustic merely being louder. The music being played on the newer electrical instruments became emotionally enhanced by bending strings and done more easily using thinner gauged strings more loosely tuned. Traditional acoustic instruments played louder with thicker gauged strings that are tightly tuned, therefore bending strings was not developed much on them.

I think there's even an electric special effect that doubles the tone (not volume) of each string, which creates an artificial dual-string sound on single-string amplified instruments. Just some of the reasons dual-stringed instruments are not so popular.