half size mandolin

[batman]

I know that violins are available in smaller sizes, but how about mandolins? I'm getting ready to be a grandpa and already have a 1/4 size fiddle for little batman jr. but could there be a mando the same size? life is good, Don

[grsnovi]

Check out the thread (with pictures) on Jamie Wiens picolo mandolin here:

http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....=picolo

[berkeleymando]

There are threads in the classical section that address this too: search on 'piccolo'

[glauber]

But isn't the picolo a higher-pitched instrument?

[WaywardFiddler]

You might look at the Mid-Mo "Kid-Mo" KM-4 and KM-8 mandolins. I've been thinking of getting a KM-4 for my daughter, but haven't had a chance to play one yet.

BTW a 1/4 violin is pretty big... probably more for a 10 year old. My daughter started on a 1/32 at age 3.

-dave

[Martin Jonas]

Here is a bowlback example of the sort of thing you're talking about: a full-scale, normal-pitch, mandolin of reduced body size, which I'm told (thanks, Eugene) are called "pockey mandolins", equivalent to a pochette violin.

Otherwise, the Kid-Mo is probably a good start.

Martin

[Eugene]

Here is a bowlback example of the sort of thing you're talking about: a full-scale, normal-pitch, mandolin of reduced body size, which I'm told (thanks, Eugene) are called "pockey mandolins", equivalent to a pochette violin.

That's "pocket" and slang at best.

[Bob A]

Here is an example of a child-size bowlback. It is tuned a fourth higher than a normal mandolin, but because it scaled down, it accepts regular light-gauge strings. Becasue of the miniaturisation it is a little awkward for full-sized humans to play.

(Sadly, the link didn't work to completion. If you click on "reproductions", then "vintage", then thi mandolin marked "piccolo" you'll see what I meant.)

[mad dawg]

Can any luthiers out there -- or physics majors for that matter -- advise what the shortest scale length would that can still be tuned GDAE? Is it safe to assume the limiting factor when you go too short would be sloppy G-strings?

[WaywardFiddler]

mad dawg:

Well, I'm no luthier, but I just happen to have a 1/32 size violin in the closet around the corner from the computer. I dug it out and measured it at a tiny fraction under 7 inches from bridge to nut.

Fractional size violins have special strings, not only are they shorter, but they are made of different materials -- I think you can only get silver wound synthetic core D & G strings, for example -- the material helps lower the pitch. Even so, the string tension is pretty low. A 1/32 violin is hard to tune. Pegs are only for taking up excess string, you must have fine tuners, and I swear breathing on the fine tuner moves the pitch 20 cents. You learn to make almost imperceptable tweaks of the fine tuner. And variation in bow pressure changes tuning quite noticeably. And yes, the G is pretty sloppy because the tension is so low.

The other thing that I notice with small instruments is that the tuning is very sensitive to weather variations, which makes sense, as the tuning is very senstive overall so it stands to reason that minor shrinking/expanding will have a larger impact than on a full size instrument.

-dave

[Martin Jonas]

Here is a bowlback example of the sort of thing you're talking about: a full-scale, normal-pitch, mandolin of reduced body size, which I'm told (thanks, Eugene) are called "pockey mandolins", equivalent to a pochette violin.

That's "pocket" and slang at best.

Oops, sorry Eugene. I thought that word looked strange in your post over on the bowlbacks thread and should have guessed it was a typo. I had heard them called "pocket" before, but didn't make the connection.

Martin

[Eugene]

Oops, sorry Eugene. #I thought that word looked strange in your post over on the bowlbacks thread and should have guessed it was a typo. #I had heard them called "pocket" before, but didn't make the connection.

Sounds like I should appologize for my fat finger overstretching the "t" and whacking the "y."

[mad dawg]

A 1/32 violin is hard to tune. #Pegs are only for taking up excess string, you must have fine tuners, and I swear breathing on the fine tuner moves the pitch 20 cents.

I have a similar challenge on my 5-course Freshwater mandolin, which is of standard scale length. When tuned down to C the lower course strings aren't exceptionally sloppy, but they are a challenge to tune, and they also don't like to stay in tune (they don't wander too far off the mark, but they don't like to stay on the mark either).

[Greenmando]

Can any luthiers out there -- or physics majors for that matter -- advise what the shortest scale length would that can still be tuned GDAE? Is it safe to assume the limiting factor when you go too short would be sloppy G-strings?

Name your length, they all work.
Of course you did not mention what octaves you want to have GDAE in. This is just like a octave mandolin - just in the other direction.
I think the greatest limitation would be getting my fat fingers to fret properly on that small of a fretboard.

[Martin Jonas]

The limitation with going to GDAE one octave up is string gauge. It's very difficult to get a thinner gauge than 0.08, and for this to work as an E one octave up, the scale length has to be not much more than half that of a full-size mandolin, maybe up to, say, 200mm. Even for a child's fingers, that's a very small mandolin.

Martin

[Greenmando]

I hate to tune a normal new E string, just think about bringing a smaller one up would be like scratching a chalkboard or ripping a bed sheet to others. I guess the tuners would have to be much better also that what is available.