Weagan Pics

[mandobassman]

[QUOTE=Ivan Kelsall;982057]Which Wegen did you try ?. I recently visited a fellow 'Cafe member who gave me a Wegen M100 pick. It's so rounded in the same manner as the "Dawg' picks,that i couldn't imagine it sounding harsh under any circumstances.It's far less 'trebly & bright' than my Wegen Bluegrass picks,but it's surprisingly good,


Ivan, You're right about the M series of picks. I didn't like them because they are too rounded and too small for my taste. I couldn't get any sound out of then either. I was referring to the TF140. That's the size and shape (346) that I have been using most of my life. It's a very loud pick, which is great in certain situations, but the tone is very "hard" to my ears. The Blue Chip has a nice subtle smoothness to the tone. Same with the V-Pick, although it is slightly too bright for me. The Wegen has a very strong fundamental note with almost no overtones or complexity to it. It's just a very hard or harsh sounding pick, especially on the unwound strings. The guitar player in my band uses one on his '41 D-28 and it sounds great there, but it doesn't work well on my mandolin. I am using the Blue Chip TAD 60 with a rounded edge instead of a bevel and also using a Jazz Mando V-Pick. I have had to sand and polish the edge of the V-Pick to reduce the scratchiness, but once I did, it sounds great.

[Ivan Kelsall]

The shape & thickness of a pick does dictate how it will sound to a great extent,but the material from which it's made adds to the sound (tone) as well. As an ex-Aerospace design & manufacturing engineer,specialising in Plastic & Composite materials,i had access to many types of sheet 'plastic'. I've made Guitar picks out of scrap pieces of many of the materials,some hard,some 'softer'.As you'd possibly guess,the hard materials eg.Perspex, sounded brighter than the softer materials,which sounded - 'softer'.
I really like the 1.00 mm Wegen Bluegrass picks.As i mentioned in another thread re.picks,as we get older,our high frequency hearing drops remarkably.It's possibly the reason why the brighter,more cutting tone of the Wegens appeals to me.It's simply compensating for my high frequency hearing loss. Maybe if i was 30 years younger & my hearing ability 'different',i'd be using a different pick,
Ivan

[mandobassman]

I can certainly understand hearing issues. About 6 years ago I was diagnosed with Meniere's disease. It mostly affected my low frequency hearing and for a while I didn't think I was going to play music anymore. Thankfully, through upper cervical chiropractic treatments combined with a good enzyme supplements, the effects of Meniere's is largely gone. However, I have have suffered some degree of hearing loss from damage to the ear canal. This is probably why I am so sensitive to bright strings and bright picks. The issue I have with the Wegen is not necessarily that they're bright, it's the hardness of the tone to my ears. The V-Picks are bright, but there's a smoothness to the overall tone so that the brightness does not bother me so much. The Wegen's TF 140, to my ears, has a very hard attack to the fundamental note, whereas the M150 is so rounded that it had virtually no attack and thus no volume. I'm waiting for a custom order to come in the mail. A TF180 with no bevel. I'm hoping the thicker pick along with the lack of bevel will tame the brightness and still give me the volume I like from Wegen. We'll see!

[thewhitegts]

I can certainly understand hearing issues. About 6 years ago I was diagnosed with Meniere's disease. It mostly affected my low frequency hearing and for a while I didn't think I was going to play music anymore. Thankfully, through upper cervical chiropractic treatments combined with a good enzyme supplements, the effects of Meniere's is largely gone. However, I have have suffered some degree of hearing loss from damage to the ear canal. This is probably why I am so sensitive to bright strings and bright picks. The issue I have with the Wegen is not necessarily that they're bright, it's the hardness of the tone to my ears. The V-Picks are bright, but there's a smoothness to the overall tone so that the brightness does not bother me so much. The Wegen's TF 140, to my ears, has a very hard attack to the fundamental note, whereas the M150 is so rounded that it had virtually no attack and thus no volume. I'm waiting for a custom order to come in the mail. A TF180 with no bevel. I'm hoping the thicker pick along with the lack of bevel will tame the brightness and still give me the volume I like from Wegen. We'll see!

You're now the second person I know with Meniere's! Sorry to hear that! My mother has it, and I had never heard of it when she was diagnosed with it. Hers has affected her equilibrium badly. Does it affect you that way, too?

[mandobassman]

Thanks for the kind words. Actually I started having symptoms about 2002. I was out on a Friday night playing with my band and I had been having some hearing issues and just blew it off as allergies. I was having trouble hearing harmony parts and hearing bass notes (I played bass in that band). Band members commented that my vocal pitches were off. Anyway I was coming home from that gig and stopped at a convenience store to pick up a snack. When I stopped the car to get out everything started spinning violently. I stayed in the car for 1/2 hour. When I was able to drive, I went to where I worked which was down the street, thankfully, and stayed there 'till morning. That was the first and only vertigo incident I had until the end of 2006. Then I started having vertigo episodes every few weeks. It was then that I went to see a ENT and was diagnosed with Meniere's. I had regular episodes for the next two years and, at one point , it was every few days. None of the medical treatments did anything. It was just at the point that I was considering invasive surgery that my wife and I started looking into alternative, non-medical treatments and discovered a Upper Cervical Chiropractor in Wisconson that had success treating Menirere's. We found a wonderful Chiropractor in the Philadelphia area that had huge success on the first treatment. At the same time, we contacted my wife's aunt, who lives in St Louis. She is a Chiropractor and also specializes in natural healing techniques. She tested me and started me on a regimen of enzyme supplements that I have been using ever since. I still have a slight balance issue every so often, but I haven't had a single vertigo episode since Sept. of 2008. I have had some slight hearing damage from all of the vertigo, but it is minor and I am able to play bass in one band and mandolin in another with very little issues. Every day I am thankful for what I have been given back. I still go to the Chiropractor once a month and still take 4 enzymes every day and will continue to do so. I know Chiropractors can be expensive. I am very lucky. Mine only charges $60 per visit. Sorry for the long story, but I am always eager to share this info with anyone who can benefit from it. PM me if you need any more info.

[thewhitegts]

I appreciate the info. My mother was diagnosed about 3 or 4 years ago with it now. She still has violent vertigo issues. It is crazy how quickly it can hit her, too. I truly hate it for you all because I know how awful and sickening it can be to feel dizzy. To see it happen for days on end sometimes.... I can't imagine having to not open my eyes for days cause everything is spinning!!!

[Ivan Kelsall]

As a rider to my previous post,yesterday i measured the thickness of the Wegen pick given to me by fellow UK 'Cafe member Paul Cowham,& it's 2.0 mm thick,not 1.0 mm thick as i thought. Given that it's the same thickness & shape as the 'Dawg' pick that i've tried,it's a far better pick that i'd have imagined prior to using it. However,it doesn't give me the brightness (comparative) that i need.
Given that it's 2.0 mm thick (measured with a micrometer),it's not an M100 or M150
so what is it ?. I can't find a 2.0 mm thick pick similar (no finger grips) to it on the Wegen site ???
Ivan

[Brent Hutto]

It's probably something like an "M200". You can special order most of his shapes in thicknesses other than standard. A lot of times a mail-order place like Greg Boyd or Elderly will order a variation on one of the standard models and call it a Limited Edition or something like that. If yours is the shape of an M150 but just 2mm thick instead of 1.5mm that's a special-order one.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Brent - Yes, it's exactly the same shape as the M100 / M150 picks. I don't know where Paul bought it (presumably in the UK),or he may have ordered it as a 'special' to be very similar to the 'Dawg' picks that he likes - one easy way to find out,ask him !,
Ivan

[brmichaelpaul]

Brother you have got to roll with the Wegen TF 140, excellent tremolo with these things. If people think the sound is "harsh" it is because they have to back off a little...

here is example of what it can sound like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGulmvu9s9k

[Brent Hutto]

Hey, maybe "Preciosa" just can't play harsh!

Sweetly played, Brother.

[Manfred Hacker]

Very nice, Brother. Beautiful sound.

My experience is the same as yours. My Wegen M150 is as far from harsh as it can be.
You may listen to this or other tunes I recorded in the Song-a-Week Social Group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXreh...eature=related

It is only because of this thread that I purchased a CT 55 Blue Chip pick to be able to judge first hand what was behind the Blue Chip hype.
To my ears, the Blue Chip is not harsh either, but the Wegen produces a MUCH warmer sound. AND the rounded edges make a smooth tremolo much easier (FOR ME).
If anyone is interested, I could record a short clip using the two picks.
YMMV.

[mandobassman]

Try playing that lightly in a high energy bluegrass band. Might as well not have any strings. The harshness I hear from the TF140 is not from playing too hard. I play the same way no matter what pick I use. I get a nice smooth tone from the Blue Chip, JazzMando V-Pick, JazzMando ProPlec, and Fender Extra Heavy 346 celluloid. To my ears, the Wegen TF140 has a hard tone. I feel it is partly from the bevel. Every pick I have ever used that has a bevel sounds bright and hard to me. I had the same experience with the first Blue Chip I used. I had a TAD 60 standard triangular 1.5mm. At that time they didn't offer it without a bevel and I didn't like it. I now have the exact same pick with a rounded edge and it is noticeably warmer and smoother in tone. I am waiting for a special order Wegen to come in the mail. It is a TF160 (1.6mm) with no bevel. I'm anxious to see how it compares to the beveled TF140.

[Mike Bunting]

Try playing that lightly in a high energy bluegrass band. Might as well not have any strings. The harshness I hear from the TF140 is not from playing too hard. I play the same way no matter what pick I use. I get a nice smooth tone from the Blue Chip, JazzMando V-Pick, JazzMando ProPlec, and Fender Extra Heavy 346 celluloid. To my ears, the Wegen TF140 has a hard tone. I feel it is partly from the bevel. Every pick I have ever used that has a bevel sounds bright and hard to me. I had the same experience with the first Blue Chip I used. I had a TAD 60 standard triangular 1.5mm. At that time they didn't offer it without a bevel and I didn't like it. I now have the exact same pick with a rounded edge and it is noticeably warmer and smoother in tone. I am waiting for a special order Wegen to come in the mail. It is a TF160 (1.6mm) with no bevel. I'm anxious to see how it compares to the beveled TF140.

I agree with your idea regarding the bevel. When I first got a TAD 60, back when there was only one page of the original thread, I didn't like the bevel on it. I reworked it, removing the bevel and I'm still using that pick. I get the smoothest feel and the fullest tone of all the picks I've tried.

[mandobassman]

I have been waiting since Sept. 22nd to receive a custom ordered Wegen pick from Janet Davis Music. I got it today (yes. 9 weeks). I was so close to canceling the order and getting my money back. I'm actually glad I didn't. I have commented before about what I considered a hard, harsh tone from the standard Wegen TF-140. I wanted to see if having the same pick without a bevel would make a difference. After all, it did with the Blue Chip. I have a Blue Chip TAD 50 with no bevel and it sounds much smoother and warmer than the same pick with the standard bevel. So what I ordered from Wegen was a TF-180 with no grip holes and no bevel. It is 1.8mm. I love this pick. It has all of the volume and low to mid tone that I like from the TF-140, but the high end is so much smoother. It is a wonderful sounding pick and I can't wait to use this in a gig. (Doing a opening for J.D. Crowe in a couple of weeks in a very good theater. Should be a good test). It's amazing how the slightest difference to the edge of the same pick can make all of the difference in tone.

[JeffD]

Brother you have got to roll with the Wegen TF 140, excellent tremolo with these things. If people think the sound is "harsh" it is because they have to back off a little...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGulmvu9s9k

Very beautiful. I especially love your tremolo.

The mandolin is capable of so much. One would not want to miss the sounds you are getting from it.

[Dave Greenspoon]

I used the M 150 exclusively for a number of years, and absolutley loved it. Steve Miklas at Acoustic Music Works in Pgh turned me on to them. IMO the most important benefit was speed. The combination of material and construction makes it a very fast pick, much faster than the Red Bear of similar build I eventually gave away (yes, gave away). I eventually went to the Dawg II at Statman's urging. He was able to hear, and get me to hear, some significant tonal differences. Even so, I still keep the Wegens nearby, and pull them out from time to time.

[Paul Edwards]

So I have been using the Dunlop 1.14 purple picks and I decided to get some M150 picks and the trouble wasn't the thickness.. but it was almost so rounded I had a tough time pickin (though I am new to mandolin). Any suggestions??

the M150's did have a nice sound though..

[Brent Hutto]

I can't get any sound at all out of those round picks. I'd advise sticking to something with at least a bit of a point on it, even if it's a very wide rounded "point".

My own theory is that the folks who get good results from round picks must strike the strings a whole lot harder than I do. Because when I play really, really hard with a pointed pick it can get a bit harsh. But normally a slightly pointed pick is a good thing IMO.

[Paul Edwards]

Thanks Brent! I wasn't sure whether to go with the FT-120-140 or the Wegen Bluegrass 1.2 Picks..

[Manfred Hacker]

If you don't get any sound out of your mandolin using a Wegen M150, the problem may be somewhere else: technique, strings, mandolin, whatever.
Brent, the highly esteemed Professor McGann explains in his DVD 'Sound Fundamentals' why he doesn't use the point but the rounded "shoulders" of a normal pick.

BarnOwl, which color Wegen did you get? As I already said above: The black M150 is different from the white M150. I don't know why, but the white one produces a much brighter tone and has a different feel.
The BLACK M150 is what works best FOR ME, a 'lower intermediate' player.

[Brent Hutto]

I'd reckon if you watch John McGann pick and watch me pick, that would be the very i.e. of someone picking a lot harder than I do. He really gets a lot of drive on the pick through the strings and get a very full tone even when playing fast. I'm afraid by comparison my stroke is a lot lighter, not necessarily by intent but just because my technique isn't so strong.

[yankees1]

I have and like Wegan picks,but-------------I have and like BC much better!

[Paul Edwards]

Thanks for the advice guys..

and Mandfred.. I got a black wegen.. which really does produce beautiful sounds but the higher end notes just sound a little muffled.. should i just be picking harder?