John McEuen's Mandolin?

[northfolk]

I just saw the NGDB again; I have seen them multiple times over the past 40 plus years. They always put on a good show and this one was no exception. I have always wondered what is the story behind John McEuen's Mandolin? He has played it for a long time, it is in very distressed condition and it is a Gibson; I assume it is a Loar?

[J.Albert]

If it's the same one John had back in the early '70's, it's a Givens F.

- John

[f5loar]

Just because a mandolin says "The Gibson" or "Gibson" up there for all to see on the headstock does not mean it was made by Gibson Co. See other posts about "fake" Gibsons. The F5 Loar style and 20's Ferns are the most copied of the fakes. John's is indeed a fake Loar style F5 made by Givens long ago and there are 100's more out there pretending to be real Gibson mandolins. And his banjo has a fake Gibson neck on it.

[Patrick Market]

Funny. Their music sounds just as good...

[allenhopkins]

Major luthiers have pretty much stopped putting "The Gibson" on the headstocks of F-5 style mandolins they build. First, because Gibson Co. really doesn't like it and may well come after them. Second, because they have their own reputations, and "Givens" on the headstock is a plus rather than a "who he?"

But there are indeed many many copies out there. My GB-3 Mastertone conversion (that's a banjo, 'case ya didn't know) has a replica 5-string neck, diamonds and squares inlay, so it much resembles the RB-3 it always wanted to be. I've discoursed at boring length over whether building a "fake Gibson neck" and putting it on a "real" Gibson pot was or wasn't kosher. Nothin' more to say on the subject.

[northfolk]

Just because a mandolin says "The Gibson" or "Gibson" up there for all to see on the headstock does not mean it was made by Gibson Co. See other posts about "fake" Gibsons. The F5 Loar style and 20's Ferns are the most copied of the fakes. John's is indeed a fake Loar style F5 made by Givens long ago and there are 100's more out there pretending to be real Gibson mandolins. And his banjo has a fake Gibson neck on it.

I really didn't mean to stir up a discussion on "fake" Gibsons? I was just trying to find out what kind of mandolin John McEuen played? Although he may not be the best mandolin player I have ever seen, he is one of the best banjo players around; "fake" Gibson neck or not?

[AlanN]

I liked John's mandolin style, a combo of low-key picking and tremble. They had a more regular mandolin guy Les Thompson, I prefered JM's style. That band played a huge role in exposing many folks to bluegrass, maybe even bigger than OAITW.

[Elliot Luber]

He'd sound good playing a cigar box... but the Givens obviously works well for him.

[northfolk]

I liked John's mandolin style, a combo of low-key picking and tremble. They had a more regular mandolin guy Les Thompson, I prefered JM's style. That band played a huge role in exposing many folks to bluegrass, maybe even bigger than OAITW.

I could not agree more. The NGDB and especially Les Thompson inspired me to take up the mandolin many years ago. The first "Circle" album exposed many to future legends of Bluegrass; Jimmy Martin, Vassar Clemens, Earl Scruggs, Doc Watson, etc. Mighty fine stuff.

[barney 59]

The builders that were making reproductions of classic Gibson f5's during that period --1970's -- were in reality producing tributes to something that Gibson had once manufactured and was either unable or unwilling to produce at that time. They weren't building what Gibson was doing. They may have had a lot to do with Gibson reevaluating itself and to begin making quality instruments again. Givens was the first or among the first to build high quality mandolins based on Loar designs and compared to anything else that was available at that time they were cannons --they usually said Givens and I would bet that even if McEuen's mandolin has "The Gibson" on the headstock the label inside will say Givens.
Nitty Gritty Dirt Band coincided with a huge "back to the land" movement that was going on at that time and they helped pave the way for a peace treaty between country folk and mountain hippies and with "Will The Circle Be Unbroken" album absolutely turned a whole generation on to traditional bluegrass and country music.

[jim simpson]

My former Chris Warner (70's) copy had Gibson on the headstock and a label inside that said "Gibson copy made by Chris Warner".

[Mike Bunting]

Quit it! you're making me feel old. My earliest blue grass record that I can remember was Flatt and Scruggs, Live at Vanderbilt University, and before that, I remember that on a clear night we could tune in WWVA all the way up in southern Ontario and hear Jimmy Martin, one of the highlights of first Circle record. I played a Givens F from 1978 all the way up to 2003, a pretty good mandolin. I heard a story that he converted a D-28 to a D-45 and it was authenticated by Martin as legit. It was sold to Mama Cass, I'm not sure if this was before or after he told everyone that it was a converted D-28

[garyedelman]

Just to update this thread. I saw NGDB last night, and got to talk with John Mceuen about his
mandolin. It is indeed an R.L. Givens, and "givens" is inlaid in a script font on the headstock.
John said he purchased it in 1975. I got to hold the instrument and strum a few chords. Impressive,
and it does have a lot of wear. The most obvious is below the E string where he plants his finger(s)
when he's picking. It is also strung as an octave mandolin- I am assuming this as I have never played
an octave mandolin before- as the strings are set up to what I can most relate to, a 12 strong guitar,
where the "second string" is one octave higher than the "primary" string.

John was a true gentleman, giving of his time between sets, when he could have been doing just about
anything else. Answering questions, signing an autograph or 2. Letting me strum a chord or 2 on his
mandolin, and just being a true ambassador for his music.

Oh, by the way, the NGBD were great last night.

[northfolk]

I also saw the NGDB recently, AGAIN in Calumet, Michigan; a great show as always. John McEuen is indeed a real gentlemen, as are all the members of the band; and always willing to sign stuff, talk about music or whatever? Les Thompson was a fine mandolin player, but has been absent for many years now. Jim Ibbotson was also a nice addition to the band; on and off over the years; off at the moment?

[Nick Triesch]

Holy Smoks! If you think about it all F5 and A5 type mandolins from all builders are fake Gibsons. Give me a break. Gibson should go after all of them then and shut them down?

[mandobassman]

Here's a photo of McEuen playing his Givens. You can see the Givens name on the headstock. It's odd, but he does seem to have the G and D strings set up as octaves.

[re simmers]

I saw the NGDB in 1974 at an outdoor "rock concert" in a field near Hagerstown, MD. I confess that I was a 15 yr old hippie who sat through about 6 rock bands in 100 degree heat so I could hear "Mr. Bojangles" and "House at Pooh Corner." I was barely sober enough to "experience" the NGDB. They were fantastic. McEuen has always been an exceptional musician and entertainer. It's fitting that he would have an exceptional mandolin like a Givens.

Bob

[Paul Kotapish]

I think the first time I really payed attention to the mandolin as a distinct voice was on the NGDB's rendition of "Billy in the Lowground" on the 1970 Uncle Charlie and His Dog Teddy LP. The tune was credited to Les Thompson--although it is a much older traditional piece with many variants (including some crooked ones)--so I'm presuming that it was Les playing the mandolin on that track. John sounds great on pretty much everything he picks up.