Tenor Guitar (GDAE Tuning) - Options?

**TJe153** · Sep-13-2011, 9:19pm

Hello Mando Cafe Members!

I was looking to expand my musical talents and I was thinking about getting a tenor guitar. Since I am an experienced mando player, I am looking for a GDAE (octave mando) tuned tenor guitar. So here are the questions...

(1) The little martin tenor guitar seems to be a modestly priced instrument that may peak my interest. But can it be used/altered for a GDAE octave mando tuning? Maybe a nut adjustment?

(2) What kind of string gauges should for this tuning? Does this depend on the scale of the instrument?

(3) For anyone who plays a tenor guitar with octave mando tuning, have you used it in a bluegrass jam? How did it work out?

Thanks for the info in advance! - Tom

**multidon** · Sep-13-2011, 9:43pm

I have just finished restoring a vintage tenor guitar that is about the same size as that little Martin. But mine has a 20" scale. I was successful using the octave mandolin tuning. I did check with an on-line string tension calculator to see if I was in the same ballpark as the tenor string tuning. CGDA in 20" turned out to be about 68 pounds, and GDAE turned out, with the proper gauges of course, to be around 73. A tad more but acceptable. What worked best for me were GHS Octave Mandolin strings, 12-22W-32W-44W. These are loop end strings of course, you would need ball end so it would be easy enough to buy single strings to put together that set. I am almost sure that you would have to enlarge the nut slots on that Little Martin. The all-HPL ones are very strong and I really don't think the slight string tension increase would bother it.

**bruce.b** · Sep-13-2011, 9:57pm

I recently played a Blueridge BR-40T tenor guitar and thought it was an excellent guitar for the money (about 350 USD). Really nice. I'd like to try the Aria tenor or hear what people who've played it have to say. There's also the Ozark with a shorter scale for about the same price. I haven't tried the little Martin but the HPL construction really turns me off. People who've played the Martin and the Blueridge consistently say the Blueridge is much nicer. It costs quite a bit more (like many times more) to move up beyond these, to say a vintage Martin 0-18T, but you probably already know that.

String gauges depend on scale length and what you like. I currently have 42, 32, 22, 11 on my 23" scale Newton. It works fine but I'd say the 42 is slightly light and the 11 is too light for the best tone/volume. A 45 and a 13 would be better, but I'm enjoying the light strings as it's so easy on my left hand. The 21" scale Fletcher comes with 48, 36, 24, 15.

bruce b.

**multidon** · Sep-14-2011, 7:55am

I would like to chime in again concerning what the previous poster said about Martin and HPL. I have a 6 string Little Martin in all HPL because I wanted something I could just throw in the trunk and not worry about it. I had my doubts about sound, being somewhat of a "wood snob", but I have to say, considering its size and HPL construction, it sounds WAY better than I ever thought it should! Now, I'm certainly not saying it's a D-18 or anything of the sort, but it does have its own sweet little voice. I would be really curious to try and hear one of the tenor models, especially changed over to GDAE. I can also see where the HPL would be an advantage to a gigging musician- just think, never having to worry about cracks or splits or humidity or temperature or finish damage. The things are almost bulletproof! I know we all want the best possible sound, but sometimes there are practical considerations too. They are much heavier than an equivalent wood guitar would be, though. I sure wish I could find one (the tenor) in a music store to try.

**multidon** · Sep-14-2011, 8:28am

I just checked the Martin Web site just out of curiosity, and discovered that the LM tenor is now listed as an "inactive model". If it's been discontinued, it's difficult to know whether the retailers who carry them will lower the price to blow them out or keep the price high knowing it is a limited supply. But when they're gone they're gone so if I really wanted one I think I would get it while I still could. I also discovered a blog entry from someone who tried to "octave-ate" one like you want to but ran into some snags. Here is the link: http://wmblathers.blogspot.com/2009/...artin-lxm.html

**mikeyes** · Sep-14-2011, 11:59am

The LXM tenors are still available from musiciansfriend, music123, and elderly at $449 and on Amazon for more than that. I suspect that along with the Tres Cubano built on the same body that these instruments will be around for a while and that the reason they are "inactive" is that no one wants one. At some point the price will drop a lot and for a few weeks they will be very cheap until gone.

**Tim Lee** · Sep-14-2011, 1:54pm

Hope you get one! I'm not sure about the BG jam prospects though. I'm working on the same thing and finding the most difficult part besides the finger stretching is what to play for rhythm on a BG tune. Chopping is not going to cut it, so I'm working on a more guitar-like style, and that is going to take me a long time. I stink at guitar.

**JeffD** · Sep-14-2011, 2:39pm

I really like the Fletcher Tenor Guitars. I have played several and they have a great sound. I love the narrow waist, floating bridge, and banjo peghead. So darn cool.

**JeffD** · Sep-14-2011, 2:41pm

Originally Posted by Tim Lee

Hope you get one! I'm not sure about the BG jam prospects though. I'm working on the same thing and finding the most difficult part besides the finger stretching is what to play for rhythm on a BG tune. Chopping is not going to cut it, .

My experience as well. Much more guitar like. But for old time they are wonderful. And you can change to alternate tunings on the fly.

The Fletcher tenors have a banjo style head with the tuners in the back. Way cool.

**Eddie Sheehy** · Sep-14-2011, 2:51pm

I have a Jumbo Soares Tenor Guitar which I tune GDAE. It is a big Gibson shape (single cutaway). I use half of a J80 set on it. It's a 23" scale length. It was originally tuned CGDA but I prefer the 'Celtic' tuning. At 17" across the lower bout it's a monster, but has a great neck with a nut-width of 1 3/16".

**bruce.b** · Sep-14-2011, 3:02pm

I should have been clearer when I said above that the HPL material used on the little Martin is a turn off. It's just personal aesthetics. It may be an excellent choice for the intended design goals. I personally would much rather have a tenor made from real wood with a solid spruce top for significantly less money, like the Blueridge. I'd love to see Martin make a lower cost version of the 0-18T with a solid spruce top and plywood sides and back and/or an all solid wood model using less expensive woods.

As far as small guitars sounding good, my Newton tenor is a copy of a size two Martin and I think it sounds fantastic. I'm sure it's not as loud as a dread, but it can be played pretty loudly. It has a lot of headroom. I was also surprised at how loud a Fletcher Tenortone with heavier strings is for such a small guitar.

bruce b.

**bruce.b** · Sep-14-2011, 3:05pm

Tim, why not chop on a tenor? If the stretch is too much just use three string triads. Does it just not sound quite right in a BG setting?
bruce b.

**JeffD** · Sep-14-2011, 3:07pm

Originally Posted by bruce.b

Tim, why not chop on a tenor? If the stretch is too much just use three string triads. Does it just not sound quite right in a BG setting?
bruce b.

My experience is that it just doesn't chop real well. Its not a crisp bark. To be fair thats not what its made for, but I had to try it.

**Avi Ziv** · Sep-14-2011, 5:20pm

Originally Posted by JeffD

I really like the Fletcher Tenor Guitars. I have played several and they have a great sound. I love the narrow waist, floating bridge, and banjo peghead. So darn cool.

Jeff, I just got one of these and I'm very happy with it so far. I use it for Irish traditional tunes - melody playing, that is. Not sure how well it would work for chordal work, yet.

**Tim Lee** · Sep-14-2011, 5:37pm

Not crispy enough but it does make a nice dark rumble on some chops. I really like the beautiful open chord sounds, mine is not a good guitar, just a well set up Airline and I can't put this thing down. The goal is to use it as a hybrid guitar/mando when there are too many at a jam. I have a long way to go though, as I said, I'm not a guitar player except for a few fiddle tunes. Strumming in time, singing and hitting all the right alternating bass note is wearing me out right now.

**EarlG** · Sep-14-2011, 9:20pm

I have the LXM Martin tenor tuned GDAE. Get om strings and I think you'll have to file the nut at the G a little. The hpl sounds better than you might guess. You won't be heard in a bg jam with it. I just play it for fun at home. It's a good little guitar.

**mandroid** · Sep-15-2011, 12:50pm

Yea, seems like the same solution ,as Irish Tenor banjos , heavier strings ,
and you are an Octave down.. a 19 fret banjo and a17 fret use a little different gage, shorter =thicker.
To be heard in a Session , the Banjo head amplifies, acoustically, better..
or at least louder..

not sure how you would fit in a BG jam, OM's are like Accordions, then
'B.Mon and the Boys' didn't use one so it's , an Alien.
depends on the tolerance to instrumentation unorthodoxy
at that particular session.

**TJe153** · Sep-15-2011, 9:38pm

Wow....I got bogged down with work this week and just checked this thread. Unfortunately I decided to opt-out of the tenor guitar route and went with a tenor banjo. I found a minty clean Goldtone irish tenor 250 openback on ebay and pulled the trigger. According to the person who sold it to me, it is set up for GDAE and should be good to go out of the box.

Looking forward to branching out - ill let the forum know how it goes! Thanks again for the advice everyone!

**Ed Goist** · Jan-28-2012, 7:04pm

Bumping this thread as I've been researching electric tenor guitars tuned to octave mandolin tuning (GDAE).

Based on several postings to the Cafe forums, and elsewhere on the web, it seems that the following string gauge ranges are most often used by folks who tune their standard scale length tenor guitars (22.75" to 23"scale) to OM GDAE tuning:
G = .038 - .045
D = .026 - .032
A = .017 - .024
E = .012 - .014

So, this could be further broken down into the following "sets" of GDAE Tenor Guitar strings:
Light Gauge = 38-26-17-12
Med. Gauge = 41-29-21-13
Heavy Gauge = 45-32-24-14

Comments?...What gauge strings do you prefer on your GDAE, standard (~23") scale tenor guitar?

**Chip Booth** · Aug-06-2012, 10:46am

I am thinking about setting up my Martin 017T for octave tuning. I have on hand 44, 32, 22 plain, and 12. Should I look for a wound 22?

**Handy Hummingbird** · Aug-06-2012, 11:18am

Originally Posted by Chip Booth

I am thinking about setting up my Martin 017T for octave tuning. I have on hand 44, 32, 22 plain, and 12. Should I look for a wound 22?

I tend to use the same gauges on my tenor guitar with a wound 22. It does sound nice and thick, but I sometimes wonder if a plain might deliver a more guitary tone in solos.

My first tenor was a Lark In The Morning solid wood model which, whilst not much to look at, sounded incredible when strung GDAE - powerful bass and ringing trebles really great for rhythm and lead. In my opinion I don't think the recent Martin laminate tenor is much good for anything, I'd always go with a larger body otherwise you risk sabotaging a degree of versatility.

**mandroid** · Aug-06-2012, 11:23am

Should I look for a wound 22?

.022 in plain music wire is rather stiff, I'd think..

because the windings wear so fast, in that gage, consider nickel or stainless wound, 22,
then P-Bronze for the larger 2.. for tone..